Yes, I know I said I was going to return to the theme of climate change as soon as I got back from my working trip to England. Regular readers will know that my muse is an unpredictable lady, however, and what she decides to talk about is not always what I had in mind. Add to that long hours sitting on planes and trains and Underground cars, brooding over certain recent events, and unexpected insights are hard to avoid.
The recent events just mentioned, and thus the insights, centered on a conversation I’d had recently with a friend and fellow blogger. The friend in question is one of the most intelligent people I know, with a broad knowledge of politics and international affairs, and a habit of incisive analysis that often impresses the stuffing out of me. Our conversations usually range over a dizzyingly broad landscape of ideas and current events, and I expected more of the same. What I got instead was a series of repetitive diatribes about Donald Trump.
Mind you, I have no objection if people want to criticize Trump—no politician should ever be immune to criticism, and I’ve got my own objections to some of the things the current US administration has done—but there’s a difference between thoughtful criticism and the endless rehashing of partisan talking points. My friend did the latter, circling back over and over again to the claim that Trump’s tariffs would result in economic catastrophe and empty store shelves within weeks. Of course he was wrong, and there was never any real danger that he would be right. Anyone who’s paid attention to Trump’s style recognized the initial round of tariffs as the negotiating ploy it obviously was. Governments overseas certainly got the memo and started negotiations in earnest immediately, and the store shelves stayed well stocked.
Yet my friend, usually so acute in his analyses, missed this completely. Instead, he insisted that this time Trump really had gone too far, and would be abandoned by his supporters and driven from office in short order. That gave away the game, of course. People in what we may as well call the laptop class—the people in and around the corporate, government, and nonprofit bureaucracies that dominate our society—have been saying that since Trump began his first presidential campaign back in 2015. They’ve been wrong every time, but that repeated failure somehow never keeps the same prediction from being trotted out every few weeks or so.
My friend isn’t quite a member of the laptop class, but he shares most of its values and interacts with that class frequently. Brooding over the sheer weirdness of our conversation got me thinking about the many comparable examples I’ve witnessed in recent years. Some of those had Trump’s antics as their common theme, but there are also plenty of examples that have nothing to do with the current US administration. It was while I was pondering this, and watching stations on the London Underground go rattling by, that it occurred to me that all these examples came from people from the same social sector: that is, the laptop class and its associated intelligentsia.
That, and another set of repetitive phenomena which I’ll discuss a little later, sent me on a deep dive into the underpinnings of social hierarchy among human beings. In order to forestall the inevitable misunderstanding, let me be explicit here: the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology. It’s the behavioral, cognitive, and emotional reactions that individuals have to the places assigned them by society that are hardwired into their nervous systems.
There’s nothing uniquely human about any of this. Every species of social vertebrate—guppies, chickens, baboons, you name it—follows one of a few standard variations on a common pattern of social hierarchy. In all probability those evolved back in the middle Paleozoic, hundreds of millions of years ago, around the time that the first primitive fish started swimming in schools for mutual protection rather than each going their own way. The neurological patterns that make these hierarchies work aren’t a product of the cerebral cortex, the most recently evolved and bug-ridden part of our nervous equipment; they’re down there in the brainstem. This goes deep.
One of the profound challenges that certain branches of psychology and anatomy level against the arrogant confidence of our species is precisely the recognition that we’re nothing like as rational as we like to think we are. Our rational minds, remarkable as their activities can be, are thin veneers over the top of standard-issue social primate nervous systems. Sometimes our rational minds can guide the rest of our mental equipment, but that’s generally the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time, the primate level takes the lead, and the rational mind simply rationalizes the results, coming up with plausible excuses for what we’re going to do anyway and presenting those as spurious reasons for instinct-driven behavior.
I think most people are aware of this to one degree or another. It’s a common adage among us men, for example, that we can only think with one head at a time, and when the one down between the legs does the talking, it can require an enormous effort to wrest control from it and start thinking with the brain instead. My readers will doubtless have no trouble coming up with many other examples. Yet I haven’t seen much discussion so far of the way that this interfaces with status and hierarchy to create certain familiar patterns of human behavior.
Bring those deep roots into the picture and a great many otherwise odd phenomena make instant sense. Consider the very common social habit among the poor to which the Irish, with their gift for language, have given the name “begrudging.” Begrudging is the systematic and often nasty way that the poor turn on those of their own social class who try to better their individual status. Rationally speaking, it makes little sense, but if you factor in the unconscious nature of status, it’s instantly understandable. Hierarchies only work if most of the people in them accept their status, and cooperate with the system to keep others in their place:
“God bless the squire and his relations
And keep all of us in our stations,”
as rural English people used to pray.
One of the things that’s made the last few centuries so unsettling for so many people is that cascading waves of change have upended traditional hierarchies across most of the world. In the United States, in particular, we haven’t yet had a settled social hierarchy last for more than a century, so it’s been a very unstable place to live. (Note here again that the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology; otherwise social mobility wouldn’t happen at all, much less become as common as it has. Once again, it’s the behavioral, cognitive, and emotional reactions to hierarchy that I’m discussing.)
All this instability made upward mobility one of the basic elements of the American credo, as whole generations conveniently forgot that where there is upward mobility there must be downward mobility to balance it. Since the instincts that govern hierarchy change only over evolutionary timescales, however, the reactions that governed the social interactions of Devonian lungfish and African baboons are still fully functioning in all of us, and have predictable results on those whose status changes, as well as on those who end where they began.
This is where I want to bring in the second set of examples I mentioned earlier. It will require some care to avoid giving unnecessary offense here, so I’ll remind my readers that we are talking about instinctive behaviors shared with all social vertebrates and hardwired into all of us at brainstem level. None of what follows should be taken as criticism of the persons in question—not least because any of us in the same situation, would likely behave the same way. With that in mind, let’s talk about the distinctive behavior pattern that’s given rise to the slang term “Karen.”
That term got instant currency a few years ago because we’ve all witnessed the behavior it represents, and those who have worked in retail (as I have) have been on the receiving end of it far too often. A middle- or upper middle-class woman goes into a business and tries to bully the staff into giving her special treatment; if this is refused, she inevitably demands to speak to the manager and deploys the same belligerent tactics. What’s fascinating about this is that the women in question never see their behavior as bullying. From their perspective, they’re simply speaking up for themselves and asking for reasonable accommodation.
I’ve had the chance to watch this in action repeatedly for an interesting reason. Inevitably, if anybody uses the label “Karen” with this behavior in mind in the comments on this blog or my Dreamwidth journal, one of my middle- or upper middle-class female readers sends me a private message demanding that I not permit the term to be used. Yes, exactly: they want to speak to the manager, and tolerably often they do it in the same belligerent way that the stereotype suggests. I don’t recommend trying to tell them this, however. The only thing that works reliably to quell the behavior pattern is a quick verbal equivalent of the alpha baboon baring his fangs.
What makes this fascinating to me is that the women who behave this way aren’t normally belligerent. Quite the contrary, the ones I’ve met personally have one and all turned out to be pleasant, intelligent, sweet-tempered people. I’d have been at a complete loss to make sense of all this, except for my late wife’s passionate fondness for 18th- and 19th-century English novels, in which this same behavior pattern is anatomized in mordant detail. No, it’s not women who display it in Georgian and Victorian literature; it’s nouveaux-riches, men who rose out of the working class into positions of wealth and influence. The contrast between the scion of old wealth, whose manners command instant respect from the lower orders, and the nouveau-riche “mushroom” who doesn’t have those ingrained manners and habits, and has to use bullying and bluster to get what he thinks he deserves, is a constant theme in these tales.
Consider, in this light, the change in status of middle-class women over the last 75 years. As a group, they’ve experienced a vertiginous rise in society, to the extent that I don’t think anyone will be surprised if we get a female president one of these years. In 1950, that was practically unthinkable. It’s a standard trope in the novels Sara loved, though, that it takes three generations or so for a family that’s risen into the privileged classes to learn how to play the role properly. The daughters of today’s middle- and upper middle-class women won’t have this problem; they’ve been raised in social environments that accept their privilege, by parents who have more or less gotten used to their new status. It’s those who are still in the transitional state who are vulnerable to these hardwired reactions.
(Here again, the existence of this transitional state may help remind readers that the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology. It’s the behavioral, cognitive, and emotional reactions individuals have to the positions their societies assign them that are hardwired into their nervous systems. I’ve repeated this thrice, following the Bellman’s Law, because I expect some readers to go out of their way to misunderstand what I’m saying in this post, and I plan on merrily mocking those who do so. You have been warned.)
The point to keep in mind is that this same pattern can be expected any time any person or group of people undergo a significant rise in status over the short term. Beneath the veneer of rational thinking and the flurry of rationalizations it produces, their behavior is shaped by patterns of instinct that were age-old before the first dinosaurs, and it requires a massive effort of self-knowledge and self-mastery to overcome those patterns. The same is just as true on the other end of the scale. It’s when we turn to this of the picture, and consider the behavioral impacts of downward mobility, that we can circle back to my friend and his tirades about Donald Trump.
Status is not an abstraction. For most people, it’s an essential ingredient of their identity. Gaining status is disorienting and disruptive, but it has obvious benefits, and most people get used to it in due time. Losing status? Not so much. Rather, it’s felt as a catastrophe, both in practical terms and in the impact on identity. If you’re used to thinking of yourself as one of the important people, the ones whose opinions matter and whose needs and wants ought to be taken into account by everyone else, finding out that this isn’t the case any more is a shattering blow. We can describe the result as status panic. It’s a profoundly traumatic experience.
What makes this especially agonizing is that the members of every privileged class end up thinking of themselves as the natural rulers of society, who deserve the unquestioning obedience and respect of the lower orders. They forget the mordant lesson Arnold Toynbee tried to teach them, which is that the rest of society tolerates privileged classes only so long as they provide effective solutions to collective problems. This is precisely what the laptop class has failed to do in recent decades. No matter what the problem is, the response is to hire more bureaucrats and commission more studies—a move that benefits the laptop class considerably, of course, but doesn’t do a blessed thing to remedy problems that are pressing down with ever more force on the rest of us.
That’s why every scenario spun these days by the laptop class and its penumbra of writers and bloggers ends with Trump being driven from the presidency so that the laptop class can return to power. No other outcome is imaginable to them. When news of the Russian Revolution was brought to Nicholas II, the last Tsar of Russia, at his comfortably secluded palace at Tsarskoe Selo, he is said to have responded in baffled and plaintive tones: “But the Russian people love me!” In much the same way, as the less violent revolution now under way comes to the attention of the current elite in its equally secluded virtual palace—call it Bourgeoiskoe Selo—they’re incapable of grasping that the vast majority of people are sick of their mismanagement of society, and are cheering Trump on as he fires bureaucrats by the job lot.
Nor, to be frank, is any other option available at this point. The United States is effectively bankrupt, having run itself trillions of dollars in debt to pay for all those bureaucrats and studies that the laptop class cheered on. The debt was temporarily possible because of the US dollar’s role as global reserve currency, but that role is crumbling now as nation after nation cuts bilateral deals with its trading partners and shuts the dollar out of the equation. That being the case, the only remaining option is to slash federal expenditures to the point that they can be covered by current tax and tariff revenue, and then force a technical default on America’s overseas debt.
A case could be made, in fact, that this is why Donald Trump is president just now. Everything he’s done in his first months in office follows the standard script of a CEO brought in to prepare a badly indebted company for bankruptcy and reorganization: he’s cutting wasteful expenditures, laying off excess staff, terminating whole departments, forcing renegotiations of contracts with vendors and partners, and pulling back from commitments that can’t be sustained. It’s occurred to me more than once that business interests, recognizing the inevitability of a default, decided that it was time to back a presidential candidate who has plenty of practical experience with strategic bankruptcies and knows how to handle them.
The difficulty for the laptop class, of course, is that this means that they’re on the chopping block, just as definitively (though not quite so literally) as the French aristocracy in the years following 1789. It’s not just that the sprawling financial ecosystem that funneled trillions of dollars out of the federal coffers and into a cascade of bureaucracies—public, private, official, off-the-books, you name it—is being dismantled, though of course that’s a massive issue: many thousands of members of the laptop class are already having to find other jobs in a market that has very little use for their existing skill set. It’s even more devastating to them that, as their class falls from power, nobody has to defer to their opinions or care what they think.
This, I think, is the subtext behind much of the high strangeness of the last decade or two. Once the supremacy of the laptop class started to face sustained challenges, members of that class rallied reflexively around whatever banner of expert supremacy got trotted out for adulation. That’s why thousands of people, who’d long insisted that Big Pharma couldn’t be trusted and natural remedies were best, pivoted on a dime and began insisting that the inadequately tested experimental drugs churned out by Big Pharma and mislabeled “Covid vaccines” were the only option—and why many of them nodded in bland acquiescence when the media proclaimed that anybody who refused to take those drugs should be rounded up and thrown into camps.
I watched that process in something like a state of shock, as many of us did. I also watched people who were alive and aware of the media during the great global cooling scare of the 1970s and 1980s angrily insist that nothing of the sort ever happened, only to turn red-faced and change the subject when I brought out the evidence. We’ve all seen plenty of other examples. What they all have in common is that they involved reflexive rejections of challenges to officially approved opinions, and thus to the supremacy of the laptop class, which prides itself on its power to define reality for everyone else.
We’re likely to see much more of that in the decade or so immediately ahead. The United States right now is in the middle of a full-blown elite replacement cycle, as significant as the ones that followed the events of 1865 and 1932. The crisis of the 1860s led to the replacement of the plantation aristocracy by a new class of industrial magnates; the crisis of the 1930s saw the ineffectual successors of the “robber barons” shoved aside by a new class of government and corporate bureaucrats whose successors make up the laptop class of our time. Now it’s the bureaucrats’ turn to be elbowed aside by a new entrepreneurial class, which will inevitably go through the same replacement process, perhaps around 2100.
In the meantime, of course, the rest of us have to deal with a laptop class in the midst of full-blown status panic, flailing around frantically in an attempt to convince themselves that some sequence of events or other will restore them to their supposedly rightful place as masters of the world. I’d encourage my readers not to take any of those flailings personally. The people in question are going through a traumatic shift in self-image, battered by reactions that date from before our ancestors first crawled up onto dry land. While they’re incapacitated, it’ll be up to the rest of us to think about what realistically can be done to deal with the turbulent future bearing down upon us—a future that hasn’t been improved, and in some ways has been seriously worsened, by the gyrations of a decadent elite on its way out history’s exit doors.
Excellent post, JMG. I was under the impression as The Long Descent kicked into gear, that most people would deal with the reality of what was possible, and what was not. But I was looking at through the lens of science and economics, and not the much more slippery process of psychology and “status”.
Your post today certainly explains how much of the chaos today is self-inflicted to some degree, crazy reactions a result of deep-rooted instincts, and suffered by those who cannot comprehend the processes happening in the Big Picture of things outside of their hard-wired perceptions.
While I won’t argue that a decline in status is a big driver of modern behaviors by many, I also am of the opinion that brain-washing propaganda and reactions based on trigger words/phrases/views is also a big part of what’s going on.
Intentional chaos for the elites and their minions, the bureaucrats, to maintain control and wealth.
I am grateful for your profound insights into our current status as a society in evolution. You certainly have a way of making sense of what is currently at the root of why certain members of society think and act (seemingly unconsciously) as they do.
Mr. JMG,
The moment that best embodies the collapse of the laptop elite was during COVID. Watching the Professional Managerial class shutter the nation to protect themselves while forcing lower class “essential workers” into their jobs is the perfect example of the failures of these “laptop warriors.” I think that was the moment I knew that the trained leaders of the world are quite fallible!
Would love to hear other examples of Laptop Class failures, for the lols I guess. Glad you are back from your travels!
Well, actually, there are in theory other options. One could, for example, tax the rich since deficits are a matter of revenue and expense. In fact, on a per capita basis, federal civil servants have been in decline for generations and are not a driver of expenses. Contractors to the federal service, used to replace civil servants, cost far more than doing in the public sector way and it’s not even close.
Trump’s actual budget massively increases the deficit, and it’s not minor, in order to give more tax cuts and other preferments to the actual ruling class, which isn’t the laptop class. The laptop class are the courtiers of the current/previous systems, parasites to be sure, but they aren’t the driving force and haven’t been for some time.
Trump’s actions are not those of someone who is fixing the deficit, though they are those of one trying to change the courtier class, which is necessary for the full rule of the oligarchs. A good hard look at who controls Vance would be advisable.
You will not like the new regime even as much as you liked the old one.
The problem with being almost always right, as you have been for decades, is recognizing those few times where you aren’t.
Have you heard about the 4am Club? Neither had I until a few days ago… The 4am Club is comprised of people (solely women as far as I can tell) who woke up at 4am on November 6 in a state of panic because they had gone to bed thinking they would wake up to Kamala Harris being President. The 4am Club women are convinced they are on the wrong timeline and that if they unite their consciousness — they are largely atheist and don’t believe in God, gods, or prayer — they can shift the timeline to one where Harris is President and Trump was the loser on November 6. The most recent date we were supposed to shift was the 14th. I have not checked TikTok to see if there is a new date set since the 14th clearly failed.
Brilliant piece, excellently argued. Thank you for shifting gears to follow your muse. Many of us out here have had similar experiences to the one you describe with your friend.
I wondered while reading this post if you’d agree that perhaps gay men are now part of the Karen contingent. I’ve had some recent experiences that suggest they are, in one strong example an over-involved parent with a gay son in tow, both demanding the earth and sky in a world with not much to spare.
“Leveling Down” is not ideal but it is the most common way historically that inequalities and hierarchies get reduced in practice.
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691271842/the-great-leveler?srsltid=AfmBOorB6-WTSdZKy5-1RZd7hrLLAyMA6xMdVPMAoiazimzLvN5ufANC
I have read some speculation that the end of the American Empire may be less like the fall of the (Western) Roman Empire (the common cliche) and more like the far more extreme distintegration of the Frankish Empire in the 9th Century with hundreds of city states and small fiefdoms in the aftermath. A comparison to the Holy Roman Empire was actually made by Founding Father James Madison himself!
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed19.asp
@drhooves #1 – Perhaps part of the structure maintaining the status hierarchy is a story, or set of stories, that encode a value system. The elite are seen as the champions of the value system. It’s not just the elites that get replaced, it’s also the stories and the value system.
The space program looks to me like a good proxy for the system with the laptop class at the top. Buck Rogers was already a hero in the 1930s. The lunar landings were the pinnacle of the cycle. By now the space program is turning into a farce.
I remember reading in a biography of Alan Turing that science was not important in the education of the elite in the 1920s. Science and technology, those are the horse and shining armor of the laptop class.
Maybe the antipathy to diversity is a clue to the coming value system. Free markets and free exchange of ideas, those were the ideals of the laptop class. The coming entrepreneurial class is looking to be about rallying large groups to march in step, about organizational power.
You mentioned the French Revolution. Looking at it, the Ancien Regime started collapsing when the interest on their debt reached 50% or so of the total royal budget. Interest on Murican debt is roughly at 15% right now. I think it might surprise people just how quick it can go from where it is right now, to that 50% mark. But we’re not quite there – yet.
Can’t say I can find much sympathy in my heart for any of that “laptop class”. All I know is the current arrangement of things – does not work, deeply dysfunctional. I’m for things that work, whatever that pencils out to in detail.
>Have you heard about the 4am Club?
Is that where your purring cat is cold-nosing you awake at 4am so you can go work out at the gym? Cats love mornings. And you should too.
Drhooves, I’ve assumed all along that the further we get into the Long Descent, the fewer people will be willing to grasp what’s happening, because the widening gap between the image of the future that undergirds their identities and the actual future that’s happening will be too painful to deal with. Yes, there’ll be some intentional chaos, but much more of the unintended kind!
Patricia L, thank you. It’s been something I’ve been brooding over for a long time, for obvious reasons.
Mrdobner, yeah, that’s a fine example of the species. There are of course plenty of others.
Ian, fair enough; you’ve made your prediction, I’ve made mine, and now we’ll see who turns out to be right. One point, though — while the number of federal civil servants per capita has been contracting, the torrent of federal money to NGOs and the whole ecosystem of satellite bureaucracies has soared, and they’re as much a part of the laptop class as civil servants. That satellite ecosystem is also on the chopping block, as I noted.
Kimberly, good gods. I’ve just been looking into several other examples of that sort of flagrant disregard of mere reality. Is there a website or the like for the 4 am club? I’d like to get more details so I can discuss all this in an upcoming post.
Brunette, I haven’t encountered that behavior pattern myself from gay men, but they’ve also seen a vertiginous rise in social status in recent decades, so it’s by no means out of character.
David, you might be amused to know that fantasy author John Crowley, in his brilliant novel Little, Big, equated the US with the Holy Roman Empire, to the extent of having a revived Frederick Barbarossa ruling over it!
Other Owen, I know. My guess is that business interests saw which way things were going, and took action before the 50% mark came too close.
Can so relate to these accurate observations in your essay… I too worked in retail (thirty years!) and have a Trump Derangement Syndrome (otherwise lovely) family member who had attained laptop status after our modest middle class upbringing.
Ironically, both she and I are now experiencing the “status plunging” of getting old, lol!
Thank you for your insights JMG
I am sorry JMG please don’t ban me, just it is a rollercoaster here and recently I have heatlh problems so if something happens it will be a problem for me and I aprecieate your blog I would stay in conversation here
Wer
This is one of your best posts ever, I think, right up there with your classic essay on catabolic collapse!
Indeed, one can’t say too often that “the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by by society, not by biology. It’s the behavioral, cognitive, and emotional reactions that individuals have to the places assigned them by society that are hardwired into their nervous systems.”
And I particularly appreciated your emphasis on the role that rationalization plays here. Aristotle once attempted to define the human being as the “rational animal.” No, we humans are not that; if anything, we are the rationalizing animal. Our capacity for rationalization and self-deception may well be our true defining quality as a species.
You have often talked about the four major classes of our society: the investment class, the salary class, the wage class, and the welfare class. But there is at least one other major class in our society that you might have included: the criminal class. By this I do not mean all people who commit crimes (even regularly), but those whose major skilled professions are crimes. As with any class, there are levels of skill and competence here. The most competent members of the criminal class are quite successful at escaping the notice of law enforcement, or alternatively, at corrupting law enforcement to overlook their professional activities.
I have family background in this class: my father’s mother and step-father, whom I knew well as a boy, were successful professional criminals for a number of decades in their prime. They never had any trouble from the law, and also they were smart enough to “go straight” as they aged and had less tolerance for the stresses of criminal activity. Grandpa left home in Copenhagen when he was 13, and went to sea. He had a knack for machines, and so he worked in ships’ engine rooms for a number of years. He left sea in Canada and came to the US, where he became a machinist, and eventually a midway “sharper” (a con artist) with a traveling carnival. In his later years he worked for a major fence (a professional dealer in stolen goods) in Oakland, whose “cover” business was an auction house. Grandma, a young widow at the time, was that same fence’s bookkeeper, keeping both his “false books” (which could be inspected at any time) and his “true books” (which no one ever got to see).
One of the characteristics of the most successful members of this class, to judge by my grandparents’ stories, is their extreme clear-eyed realism. Rationalization is a major weakness in that line of work, and sometimes proves fatal. So I became aware of its dangers at a young age. That was one of the greatest gifts I ever got from my grandparents and their son, my father.
[For those of a scholarly bent, there is now a truly excellent anthropological study of one segment of the international criminal class, Global Outlaws: Crime, Money and Power in the Contemporary World (2007) by Carolyn Nordstrom. I recommend it highly.]
Wow! Thanks for this! The media – my local paper is owned by USA Today – is full of sob stories about children going hungry as this or that program is axed; children whose Sesame Street role models have been of great comfort to them crying out, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, as the King of Siam told Anna. My phone’s News app keeps giving me mainstream (laptop class) sources, and everyone is focusing on Israel trouncing Iran. (P.S. other news sources to browse for except Fox and Al-Jazeera? suggestions welcome.
Meanwhile, college presidents and athletic directors are pulling down big bucks – the raw economic inequality, now of Gilded Age proportions is so bad that even my fellow residents in this enclave of the now-privileged (most of whom were NOT members of the laptop class, being old enough to have come up by older methods,) point to it as a Bad Thing.
Meanwhile, if Trump et. al would lay off the Culture Wars and stick to the economics, I’d be happy. Likewise if my children, and the causes that used to stand for something else, would do the same, we’d be spared a lot of needless hot air.
But, yes, status panic explains a lot of the raw rage and boilerplate !0-minute-hate rantings I’m getting so sick of. Once again, thanks for this.
And welcome back from Glastonbury.
The Grey Badger
A fine insight. I think that it also applies to the hierarchy of nations. The USA and the collect west appears to be terrified, and consequentially irrational, about their relative drop in the hierarchy.
On a related note, I’ve heard a Rumor that they are filming a direct to TV adaptation of Twilight’s Last Gleaming on location in west Asia. It’s currently unclear how closely the script is going to follow the book. But, it’s rumored that they have cast the USS Karen in a leading role. She’s supposed to get into some heated arguments with a Muslim manger over his policies.
“The difficulty for the laptop class, of course, is that this means that they’re on the chopping block, just as definitively (though not quite so literally) as the French aristocracy in the years following 1789. ”
I have often thought about what might have happened had the French and their allies won at the Battle of Plassey in 1757 rather than the British.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Plassey#:~:text=500%20killed%20and%20wounded,then%20capital%20of%20Bengal%20Subah.
Might the added wealth and prestige of a French-dominated India have prevented the revolution and possibly even led to France being a more powerful country than England in the 19th Century.
One of the alternate realities on Tony Jones Alternate Histories (one of my favourite pages) is one where Robert Clive commits suicide early resulting in this outcome.
https://www.clockworksky.net/cliveless_world/ah_cliveless_top.html
https://www.clockworksky.net/alternate_history_top.html
To the gentleman who suggested the answer was to raise taxes on the rich: if you run the numbers you will find that even if 100% of the wealth in the country was confiscated by the federal government, it would only be enough to fund the federal budget (let alone the whole economy) for about 6 months. Then, with all that money back in circulation (after being spent), it would still find its way back into the hands of those who knew how to make money. Redistribution is a myth, my friend. Anyone who thinks that wealth is a zero sum game, neither knows what money is or how it works.
I hit the relatively high status of a senior engineer, looked at my bleak prospects from that vantage point, and decided that my upbringing as a hillbilly surrounded by Appalachian “poverty” was a better life. I could care less about my “status” which is something that my elders (baby-boom family members) find absolutely unfathomable. In the scramble for status, a lot of us forget to be happy along the way, thinking that happiness will follow “accomplishment” and material wealth.
In this vein, I would encourage our host and readers to examine the history of the samurai in Japan during the Tokogawa period. It’s very interesting to note that the society and laws didn’t allow a samurai (noble) to move down in station to something like a peasant or merchant, even when there were no more wars to fight and the samurai often became bureaucrats, criminals or just drunks in debt to the rising merchant class. There was also a law that a merchant could not refuse a loan to a samurai, which might parallel the notion that think tanks or NGOs are “owed” support on the public dime. Perhaps the “laptop class” or the PMC, or the chattering class, or whatever we are calling them today need an escape route out of the status trap and at least into a productive role where they can feed themselves with dignity.
Was just talking about the elite replacement cycle yesterday – it does seem like the root of a lot of the hysteria so common these days.
I’ve also been thinking about the concept of “varnada” (basically, job) and how what you do for a living shapes your character. It’s not always the same as “caste” – you can be born into a Brahmin family and become a businessman (a Vaishya job), for instance, but when they align – like if you are natural astrologer and born into a family of astrologers as my Jyotish guru’s guru was, and you memorize the whole Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra in Sanskrit by the time you’re 8 and then spend the rest of your life applying it, what a difference that makes! And as I get deeper into Vedic studies and practices, I realize how stratified the jobs are – if you are a Jupiterian priest or astrologer, you shouldn’t be doing much Saturnine things like cleaning, farm work, or menial labor, and vice versa. So a Jyotishi spends all his time studying and practicing Jyotish, his consciousness gets shaped by that activity, and can then attain great heights (and the vastness of Jyotish shastra is truly staggering) This makes sense as a result of thousands of years of relatively stable social hierarchies, but…
I also remember the advice of my first spiritual teacher’s spiritual teacher, Richard Rose, who grew up during the depression in West Virginia. He suggested that spiritual aspirants get menial jobs so they could spend their mental energy on spiritual things, rather than somebody who has to think all the time for a living and then has no mental energy left for spiritual pursuits when they got home. This also makes a lot of sense for an American, living in a time when social hierarchies are very unstable.
I then think about the laptop class whose consciousness gets shaped to waste time, find excuses to waste energy, and obey propaganda, and I feel really sorry for them. They don’t even have any useful skills, have basically wasted all their mental energy on busywork, and when the time comes for the class to be liquidated, of course they’re going to become hysterical.
Oh well, off to work in the garden while I listen to Jyotish lectures.
Great post! You nailed it with the idea of elite are tolerated only as long as they provide effective solutions. I think that explains a lot of what we are seeing.
I’m having some trouble understanding this part: “the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology.”
You talk about how social hierarchies are biological, going deep millions of years in our evolutionary history, and hold true for all social animals in one way or another. If that’s true (and I think it is), how are social positions not also biologically determined? The baboon knows that the bigger and stronger male has higher social position in the hierarchy. He doesn’t need to be taught that, he knows it instinctively. It’s often the same in human males. So it seems to me that social position must also be biologically determined, if not completely than at least mostly. Because if animals are instinctively attuned to hierarchy, they must also be instinctively attuned to what makes an individual a higher or lower status, mustn’t they? Or am I missing something?
One would hope that cutting off wasteful expenditures would include cutting off military aid and funding to countries like Ukraine and Israel, but Trump doesn’t seem anywhere near interested in that, instead preferring to get the United States involved in yet another costly war in the Middle East.
Cheers for the Bellman. I trust you were equipped with a suitable map for your travels and weren’t waylaid by conventional signs. And that you had been sure to pack a railway share…
@jmg “a future that hasn’t been improved, and in some ways has been seriously worsened, by the gyrations of a decadent elite on its way out history’s exit doors.’ EXCELLENT QUOTE!!
I am in the laptop class (but have 4 healthy chickens, ha ha ha)
I have seen the degradation first hand over the last 30 years — as junior software developer projects back “then” actually made things more efficient.
Around 2015 a lot of the things I have worked on seem to add steps, and complexity, and bureaucracy and delay.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the laptop class is silently adding these cumbersome steps to “protect” their status (or slow down the inevitable).
People who can cut the Gordian knot will rule the future 🙂
Jerry
JMG: “It’s a common adage among us men…”
Q: How do we know that God is a woman with a sense of humour?
A: She gave men a brain and a penis but only enough blood to run one of them at a time.
Funnily, I’ve spent the last week or so thinking about thinking in relation to consciousness and the idea that we are effectively consciousness experiencing this existence using the vehicle of an animal body and its associated patterns and hardwired [instinctual] responses to ‘inputs’.
The personality of incarnation could be a case of ‘intoxication of senses’ where the tools of consciousness (emotions/thoughts) are mistaken for consciousness itself.
Where it gets particularly sticky is that ‘mind’ is also a vehicle for consciousness as well, so where you say:
JMG: “Most of the time, the primate level takes the lead, and the rational mind simply rationalizes the results, coming up with plausible excuses for what we’re going to do anyway and presenting those as spurious reasons for instinct-driven behavior.”
Fear short-circuiting rational thinking disables one of consciousnesses vehicles and takes us another step away from intuition as ‘rational’ goes out the window and action gets driven by deep [animal] patterns.
…if we only think that we are thinking, the issue could be more fundamental than what you are terming ‘status panic’ and it seems unlikely that tinkering with the monkeymind will, on its own, change the direction of spiral – Yes it can be a behavioural issue but ultimately I think it’s a consciousness issue and that’ll need some chewing on.
If the intoxication of the animal self continues to drown out rational thinking and intuition as it seems to be doing in the collective west, we might be about to experience quite the reality dysfunction as minds melt and eyes bulge… to badly mangle Bob Dylan: “Then you better start swimmin’ or you’ll sink like a stone… Status, it’s a-changin’
I’ve been brooding for decades, probably the same for most of us here, and now things are so much worse.
One thought that keeps me grounded is something a wise druidry type dude once said: “humans are going to human”. That and “This age is the worst that it will get. Deal”.
My one quibble with this wisdom is that “The Worst That It Will Get” will be unevenly applied across space and time. Experiencing humans getting their primate on is one thing when looking across the counter at a MK1 Mod 0 Karen and quite another in a devastated war zone. I guess that’s where the Fates come in.
One of the many benefits of working through the “collapse now and avoid the rush” strategy over time is that when you begin to learn the skills of LESS (Less Energy Stuff &… em… STATUS?) before you HAVE to, is that you are also, coincidentally, learning the skills of having a lower status (at least in the hierarchy of stuff) before you HAVE to, and both sets of skills are worth having – not least because they undercut the sense of panic.
For which, many thanks. 🙂
It is interesting that people from other cultures ,who now live here in the US ,are much more acutely aware of class structure than Americans are.
I have neighbor from India who I have been helping and advising on home improvement and maintenance projects with his new house. As we were staining his fence we discussed our backgrounds. He was from a tier 3 ( his description)city in India, from a family that ran some sort of cigar factory. When I mentioned that my father had been a surgeon he was very taken aback. In India a surgeon would be a member of one of the highest classes with servants and no expectation that he or his offspring would do or know anything about manual work.
I explained that my father was from a small town in Montana and had worked as a carpenter to put himself through med school. But as good as he was at medicine he really saw himself as a farmer, and raised his kids on a sheep farm taking care of 500 sheep.So I am also ,at heart, a farmer and machinest having spent my career in the down to earth trade of running a machine shop. This was very incongruous to him as I did not exhibit the behavior of social class that he would expect.
But Americans never express such observations as they delude themselves that social class and hierarchy does not exist.
Welcome back. Was a tad worried for your safety based on all the stories of the Orwellian police state Old Blighty.
5 years of quiet anger over the laptop class treatment of we the Unclean 2nd class unfoxed. And now they’ve brought in Carnage to keep the Laurentian elite happy. While your assessment of the unraveling of the PMC/laptop class warms the cockles of my heart I have 4 Trolls who are navigating the Long Descent fairly well so far. And I do not wish for them to suffer greatly for the gross incompetence of Little potato’s band of fools still in Ottawa.
Dear Archdruid: Let me to say one time more that I think that you are a genius.
It looks currently like Trump’s desire to cut some of the vast waste and fraud in the American budget is rapidly diminishing…He wants more money for the Pentagon, which has already failed numerous audits with 20 trillion or so missing, and he’s threatening a war with Iran, which the Pentagon has war gamed before and always ends in disaster…
I’ only ran into two real Karens during the scamdemic, and it was a lot of fun to wrong foot and mock them over their silly behavior…More please!
Excellent post, and thank you!
I experienced a good dose of status contraction myself about 20 years ago, long story, but it was painful indeed. I didn’t understand just how much my sense of personal happiness and confidence was linked to my professional status. On a physical level what was falling away was objectively good for me – less stress, more time for other things and having space to open up to new perspectives (including the ADR!). But I felt the stinging sense of loss on an emotional for several years after the material loss of status. Anyway, it all turned out well and I became quite happy in my reduced circumstances and have walked a few different
paths since, gratefully so.
The way out was to examine myself – mostly through spiritual inquiry and reading a lot about the self and ego, and building up enough consciousness to see clearly what I was hanging on to and why. I was lucky in that I had time to do that, and wasn’t surrounded by lots of other people lamenting the same fate. But it still took time and work. If one has an obviously “Hollywood bad” ego, it’s probably easier to see it and be repelled by it and work to drop it. But if you perceive yourself as one of the good people (smart, in control, successful, etc.) it’s quite difficult to see that clearly, let alone get comfortable with taking yourself down a peg or two.
So, yes, it’s going to be very hard for the concept jockeys of the now passing era – those who manage institutions, or shape elite opinion or explain reality to the masses. Mental health crisis beckons for many, or has already done so. But many will make it happily to the other side – although I imagine a good few, while gravitating to reduced circumstances of various sorts, will never quite get over the habit of imposing their opinions and sense of superiority on the rest of us.
Regarding Ian’s comment at #4, one of the problems in recent decades is “intermediation” – the government bureaucrats who worked in the various programs were indeed replaced by contractors (for “efficiency”), but, curiously, most of them retained their jobs. The contractors, you see, need to be hired and closely supervised, and who better to do it than the people who used to do their jobs?
Losing status? Not so much. Rather, it’s felt as a catastrophe, both in practical terms and in the impact on identity.
I can personally attest to this. I was born in raised in the Professional Managerial Class with the expectation that someone as inherently intelligent as I am would undoubtedly secure a place for myself within this class upon reaching adulthood. Unfortunately, childhood vaccination, I am inclined to think, made me just autistic enough to have significant social adjustment and basic “living life” problems that contributed to this expectation not being met. Part of the problem, of course, was the well-known “overproduction of elites” phenomenon that meant dilettantes such as myself were unlikely to have a place at the PMC table. But once I fully realized what my situation was going around 2001 or so, I started beating myself up about it all day every day and have been doing so unrelentingly ever since then.
It wasn’t until just last week, believe it or not, that I realized that this behavior has likely been a contributor to the persistent middle insomnia problem I have been experiencing for the past nine years (it has been really bad for the past four and a half), and that I realized, in turn, that this behavior and its consequences are inhibiting the accomplishment of whatever purpose for which I have incarnated and requires serious and consistent course-correction. Besides, if I don’t deserve to be treated by anybody else that way regardless of how foolish I was as a young man, then I shouldn’t be treating myself that way because that’s just useless self-cruelty. (As we said in the old hometown neighborhood, “Well, du-uh!“)
It’s good to know that my misguided attitude was something biologically programmed into me so that I don’t undermine my new path of recovery from self-abuse by having yet another reason to castigate myself!
Thoughtful considerations indeed. As always.
And indeed Trump’s role or motivation might be to prepare the US to a bankruptcy. And I do believe this is the idea. But, as events unfold, I really wonder if he will be able to fulfil it.
For all kind of reasons, it seems much more difficult to withdraw from the Ukrainian conflict than he was thinking (or pretending to) while staying out of the endless Middle East wars seems more an more difficult too.
In the meantime, I remember this interview he gave on Bloomberg a few weeks before is re-election. He was saying that raising tariffs by 10 or 20% make no sense as it will indeed only cause inflation. He argued that his plan was much bolder: it called for much higher rates, high enough to put an end to imports and allow American production to take over. And still, in the end, it seems he had to settle for the first option. What is the plan all along ? I’m not so sure…
“I’ve repeated this thrice.” Getting the popcorn ready…
I’m interested in your opinion on Mr. Trump’s recent behavior. His “big beautiful bill” doesn’t look all that different from the previous administration’s budgets (with some token differences such as the border wall). And he seems to have turned on a dime from “we need to get out of foreign wars” to “we stand with Israel and may even get into the Iran war on Israel’s side.” In the latter case he’s going as far as ignoring the evaluation of his own Director of National Intelligence. Has he been “taken behind the woodshed” and told in no uncertain terms that if he values his position and his life he’d better toe the line? (FWIW, I suspect Mr. Obama originally believed in “hope and change” until he had a similar encounter.)
Pulling back from commitments that can’t be sustained…like promoting a massively massive budget bill, or getting the U.S. involved in yet another Middle East war?
I admit, the Orange One certainly convinced a set of people that he was going to downsize that awful, terrible bureaucracy and eliminate Neocon interventionism. Turns out it was all just…a con.
Now that’s some magic, indeed.
By evolutionary necessity, women are socially much more clever than men. Their rise in your laptop class begets imbalances which will take some time to assimilate (or more likely, reverse, in the background of catabolic collapse). Other societal rifts — old/young, rich/poor, educated/uneducated, east/west, rep/dem — ironically serve to moderate the effects of the current M-F uber-rift.
Hi JMG: Again, you have really gotten me thinking about things that are happening around me in a broader sense. What I see now is the movement downward that Spengler talks about. But this has been going on for centuries, if you accept his analysis. But the Caesar phenomenon (I can’t help equating Trump to that) is real I think.
Last summer I bought the cheapo paperback version of his two volume book and proceeded to read it slowly, even underlying the parts that really captured things for me. I feel like what we are looking at right now is part of that inevitable decline in, not only the economic part of our lives, but the cultural and spiritual parts also. Whenever I talk to anyone about current times, I keep bringing up his ideas, which put these things in a different perspective. This current privileged class will experience decline,no doubt, but Western, industrial society is still going to decline, no matter which of our classes reigns supreme. Just my two cents.
@Kimberly
I see you read Bad cattitude. I would advise taking the gentleman with a grain of salt. Ask him about the 2008 financial crisis and how it plays into our current slow decent into insanity. I’m willing to bet he’ll say it plays no part at all, but in my long study of it and the .com bubble, i’d say they were the event horizon. The last chance to turn off the crazy, and be humbled. As you know we didn’t do that, and his refusal to even acknowledge it leads me to question his motives.
Does anyone know how ‘Karen’ came into common usage and if there is an equivalent pejorative for men?
And while I am demonstrating my ignorance of things social – has ‘Karen’ taken the place of calling a woman ‘a bitch’ where men are just referred to as an ‘@hole’ or something more fruity?
Last summer I and some of my family were able to tour the Nemours Estate for the first time ever. If you’ve never seen it, it’s a magnificent French château, complete with massive formal gardens located outside Wilmington, DE. The house and gardens are very specifically designed to say “Know your place, peasant.” Check them out online: https://www.nemoursestate.org/
It was, you guessed it!, built by a member of the DuPont family.
Dear son commented that he’d never get used to living in this kind of splendor. The docent said it takes about two years of luxury and having your every whim taken care of to get used to it and then, to expect it.
I can see her point, looking at how celebrities, tech billionaires, and super athletes behave.
Fra’ Lupo
Don’t forget, Trump granting amnesty to illegals working in farms, restaurants, and hotels after promising American workers that he will deport the illegals and give Americans good jobs.
Amusingly, I recently demanded to speak to the manager at our local Staples!
Bill and I were walking, as is our wont. It was raining and had been raining.
Why did I need to speak to the manager? Because the parking lot drain wasn’t draining. At all. It had never been cleaned so water could only slowly filter through the buildup of mud, leaves, and debris. It sat under several inches of water in a low spot in the parking lot. Shopping centers are not public property so the property owner is responsible for maintenance.
Hershey is prone to sinkholes and poorly maintained drains make them more likely to pop up.
Hershey ALSO got 11 inches of rain in 2011 from Tropical Storm Lee leading to widespread flooding in the township, including one woman drowning in her car mere feet away from that storm drain.
The Staples manager took plenty of pictures and maybe, eventually, that drain will be cleaned.
I think I was fully justified in speaking to the manager!
JMG,
You hit the mark with your assessment of the “Karen” phenomena. There is only one thing I would add that I think has to be admitted by every Karen: Anger. Women who were in the workforce in the 70s, 80s, and 90s were subjected to some pretty nasty disrespect and putdowns. I can tell you from personal experience that it resulted in massive chips on shoulders . What was that term they kept using for me in the office back in the day? Oh, right, “sharp elbows.” Are Karens getting it thrown back in their faces now? Sure, and rightly so. That said, there were things I did and said because I was not respected or given my due and I regret a few, but only a few. And I have worked retail. I understand the anger on both sides.
On the laptop class, you also hit the mark. I am/was part of that class. I got DOGE’d. I took one of the “fork in the road” offers and am very happy I did. I worked hard for the government and some of the work I did was even innovative and high quality, but none of it was necessary. I have lived and worked in the Washington DC area for more than 40 years and take it from me, if they cut 90% of the government employees and all of the contractors, the country would run much much better. Example: the first thing I learned when I went to work for the government is there is a form to fill out for everything. Often multiple forms, all with the same information on them. You know why there are all those forms? So the government can pay someone to process all those forms…
I voted for Trump for the last three Presidential races because 1) Anyone but Hillary; 2) Biden was senile; 3) Covid plus Biden was senile. I don’t like Trump though. I think he is a terrible choice, but we had no choice. I am afraid they are snookering him again with the Iran war thing the same way they snookered him with the Covid nonsense in his first term. This is a personal failing of Trump’s — he gets snookered because they play to his ego. But what do I know, I am just looking at it from the outside.
Anyway, great post!
Eric Hoffer, longshoreman, writer, and social observer said much the same thing:
Nothing is so unsettling to a social order as the presence of a mass of scribes without suitable employment and an acknowledged status.
Thanks JMG. The 4am Club is definitely a TikTok phenomenon. I know of no other websites that feature it, though I suspect it could be a thing on Instagram or YouTube. I believe the term was coined by Gia Prism, a self-styled internet healer and psychic medium on TikTok. She’s white and appears to be in her 30s or early 40s. She calls Trump Felon47. He seems to be her Satan. As of a day ago, she has framed this latest failure to ascend timelines as part of clearing the karma of war, which she does not see as imminent, and part of what she is dubbing a “mastery challenge”. In any given Gia Prism video, there is a lot of corporate retreat Bullsh*tese, false transcendence, and a lot of New Age posturing. To Gia Prism’s credit, she does suggest that falling into a pattern of “staying in fear” is not helpful, but the double edged sword she seems prepared to unsheath is blaming her followers for not rising to the mastery challenge because they did not overcome their old, fear-based patterns enough. “We as a collective are struggling with the mastery lesson”, she quips. Uh huh. How did William Miller explain himself once April 1844 rolled in without apocalyptic consequence? Did anybody call him out on his error or did he just keep going?
When I was middle school age, I read an old book called The Primates, part of the Life Nature Library series.I learned that macaque and langur monkey behavior was similar to human behavior in some ways– territories that monkeys are scared to leave or even venture to the edges thereof, dominance hierarchies, baby monkeys needing to be socialized to be functional in adolescence and adulthood, males being less nurturing to infants while still caring for them, and so on.
I didn’t know dominance hierarchies went back to the Paleozoic but I knew from the book that they went back to before our lineage separated from that of the Old World Monkeys.
Most NATO allies are going crazy about Trump, for a simple reason. The world is suddenly more dangerous, with Putin and Xi starting and threatening invasions, and the NATO allies have depended on the US to protect them. Now Trump is effectively telling them he’s leaving NATO, and that they have to pay for their own defense. Defending one’s country these days is incredibly expensive, and it means that the NATO allies may have to give up some goodies they value a lot, such as universal health care. They are desperately trying to persuade the Americans they know to go back to the old ways. Peter Zeihan wrote a series of books that are proving prophetic.
I agree that Trump is acting like a CEO brought to revive an indebted company. I’ve been through corporate shakeouts like that, and they are bloody.
Trump is also following the script for an authoritarian takeover of government, with the full consent of the Congress. That’s the part that concerns me much much more, and sends me out into the street.
I loved every word of this post. I now have a much better framework to make sense of what is happening and why people are acting the way they are. Thank you.
“equivalent of the alpha baboon baring his fangs” Ouch! That must have been gruesome! Having recently been on the receiving end of several of your “grizzled lion stares” I can sympathize. Those pack a punch.
So thinking out loud, the US will go trough its revolutionary stage and the new order is something like big entrepreneurs with a slashed civil servant caste, mostly state level, and a lot more subsidiarity in political organization. But the entrepreneurs can still swim in their ponds and the people get to live under less regulation.
That sounds better then Europe. For now we do not have any other overt option as just go with the system. I literally spoke with a 20ish young woman today who admitted the system was unfair to her, but that’s it. You just have to take it. Later I heard on he radio that our state is going to go 33% over its deficit allowance. Yeah, our laptop class is going to drive this straight over the cliff.
Best regards,
V
On the topic of status for gay men, one thing I’d note is that since the middle of the 2010s, a lot of aspects of gay culture has come under attack by the government and other large organizations in the name of “trans-rights”; I’m far from sure what effect that will have on their perception of their status, but it could explain the seeming lack of gay Karens.
One thing I think a lot of people miss unless they are downwardly mobile by choice is just how dramatic the changes in how people relate to you can be. My family has essentially disowned me, for instance, because I chose to slide downward hard in order to make room for pursuits I care about more than social status. I’m not sure that very many people who have not had this experience understand just how dramatic a freakout people have when someone stops caring about social status….
“Now it’s the bureaucrats’ turn to be elbowed aside by a new entrepreneurial class,…”
I think we’re able to watch that live right now, with MAGA wondering aloud whether Trump’s become afraid of his own courage.
Triggering, incidentally, furious reactions from the other side, who simply can’t believe that in this archetypal moment of the nation rallying behind “a president soon to be at war”, MAGA insists on a NO.
Wer here
If Ican be truthfull I ve never run into a “Karen” in my hometown (thankgod I ve seen them on the internet)
maybe because here in rural areas of Poland people are more level headed than in others. But I’ve seen what other “right thinking people” are doing and behaving like. I will always remember that one character who was riding on a train loudly complaining about everything (because his pal’s Mustang was broken and he was forced to ride with the peasants) and his idiotic coment when we arrives at a station near Trzcianka and he proclaimed after seeing the church nearby ringing for a mass “Look medieval period ahead” I almost come up to him but starting a fight with some rich spoiled brat with a rich connected father probably would have ended in disaster for my familly so I clenched my teeth and left at the Piła stop.
Isaac Salamander Hill The hierarchies where not as strict as you are mentioning there was a fluidity to it that people of European origin just can’t fathom because of abrahamic religion insistence of master and slave. And a brahmin life was the hardest life out there he couldn’t do business, do farming or anything else except to study the Vedas as Bhartiya Civilisation is an oral civilisation so all the information, knowledge and wisdom was passed on via stories. Brahmin priest got the highest respect in society because of his knowledge but lived life in poor material conditions all through out. People from other jaatis and varnas could be priests but they had to live the life of a priest if they were deemed capable. Pre-Industrial Society had varna system which gave people community, purpose and because as a polythestic religion we had different kulas and devi devatas to worship so everyone had a complete life handed to them in which according to your strengths there was fluidity but unlike present times where we are sold that anyone can become anything that was just not true back then you had show something extraordinary out there to do different occupations and the same applied to brahmins if the brahmin was not capable of the living the life then he was not allowed to continue being a priest and was forced to pick different occuption.
This is a (sadly!) timely post for me.
Like many others here, I have a family member who has “chimped out” over Trump. When we were growing up, I (as an Aspie) was always the one having emotional meltdowns, with no friends and generally incapable of dealing with life, whereas he was always good with people, easygoing, and popular. He married well (40+ years together and still going strong) with 2 children, whereas I am an old bachelor.
We both worked full careers in the IT industry. He zoomed to executive level rapidly (thus becoming a member of the “laptop class”) whereas I was always more of the technician, rising only to project management level (“lower” management rather than middle-management).
Now, it seems things have reversed, and I am not happy to see that. We are both now retired. He has his children close by, and his house, car, etc. are all 100% paid for. Materially, he is in excellent shape.
However, I emailed him a week ago, and made the big mistake of casually mentioning that we are in the middle of a ruling-class replacement cycle. I used the phrase “discredited ruling class” at which he erupted like Mt. St. Helens. He accused me of being a stupid ignoramus who knew nothing about American history, asserting that the current ruling class is the best thing that ever happened to America. He closed the letter by saying “Don’t you ever speak to me about a ‘discredited ruling class’ ever again!”
I will mention in passing that he is a Richard-Dawkins-style atheist. I think that is important. In my experience, only people who seriously practice some sort of spiritual discipline in their lives seem able to transcend the “neurological hard-wiring” you mention in your post. To the extent that I have been able to transcend my own “Aspie-ness”, I give credit to God. My own Orthodox spiritual life has given God the “space,” so to speak, to do His work.
All my life, I have heard upper class atheists ridicule religious people, by pointing out that atheists are often more “moral” than religious people are. Well, it is dead easy to be “moral” and “respectable” when you are sitting on the top of the social pyramid. However, if your character is dependent upon having plenty of money and high social status, then you don’t have a leg to stand on when times get hard. I think we are seeing that now. “A crisis does not change people – it reveals them!”
JMG,
I am a little puzzled by your analysis of some of Trump’s actions: namely, if he’s trying so hard to cut costs, why the giant spending bill that costs more than the cuts save? It doesn’t sound like its all essential infrastructure or anything either – a lot of it is military and I really wonder how much of it is useful military spending rather than pork barrelling.
I’m part of the so-called “laptop class”, also a very long-time reader and currently working in the startup and VC world.
It feels like we’re living in a world that’s more feudal than free-market. The main goal of many startups today isn’t to build a product people need, but to craft a compelling demo for investors. Given the extreme levels of income inequality, there’s an overwhelming amount of capital chasing these demos. I don’t see this going away in the short term (emphasis on “short”)
I work at one of the worst offenders—our company has no real product, just endless demos designed to secure more funding. But because there’s so much money in this space, even switching to a “laptop job” at a company doing genuinely useful work would mean taking a 50% pay cut. And if I wanted to do something truly meaningful, the cut would be closer to 80%.
I’ve relocated to a place where I can “collapse first and avoid the rush,” but the system remains rigged against those engaged in any sort of productive work. Choosing when to exit isn’t simple, especially when others depend on me and the impact on their lives would be significant.
As to the status thing – My colleagues are shocked that I do not try to get promoted, do not try to take the lead, that I am “just a nice person to work with without any strong ambition”. I think they have difficulty in even conceiving that one might not place much value on such stuff.
I’m baffled and rather disgusted by Trump’s recent behavior with respect to Iran and Israel, but I’ve learned that reacting emotionally to the man is the best way to get caught in his crazyweb, from which there seems to be no escape. So we’ll see what happens.
But regarding your actual point, I think this makes sense of a lot of the insanity of the last few years. That very much includes phenomena like Cancel Culture, #metoo, and the lunatic obsession with “cultural appropriation.” Each of these turns out to be little more than an easy way to take out rivals for status or delegitimize business competitors– nasty, but highly useful in a contracting environment.
A good article, which means I agree with about 60% of it and find the other 40% fun to play with.
I think as a younger member of the laptop class approaching middle age here, me and most of my contemporaries have kinda… already dealt with the status panic. We know that none of us will ever again know the kind of middle class luxury we experienced as children. For example, a year ago my partner and I rented an apartment with… get this… a *DISH WASHER*. I’ve been washing dishes by hand for 20 years (all of course while working a job that requires a massive education and that technically had a higher salary than my parents), and this thing made me happier than a housewife in a 1950’s general electric commercial.
I don’t think the entrepreneurial class will save us. I don’t even think there is one. Trump and Musk took a chainsaw (it was on stage!) to a broken machine instead of a set of tools. To me, it looked like vandalism. Maybe that’s just the laptop class training talking, a workman’s disgust at a shoddy job. Maybe even having that attitude shows that I missed the joke and took all this governance and policy stuff seriously when I was just supposed to use it for social status and for being smug. I see the techbros and the Thielites as part of the same class as the laptop havers and lanyard wearers: doomed, deluded, and fighting to be kings of a castle that is currently on fire.
I’m pagan, and trans, and I guess a political radical (though I don’t feel like one). And maybe I’m just too autistic and numbed out to properly associate with my own class. I read you, after all, and I’ve always found more solidarity with my fellow outcasts than with my coworkers. I once had to endure an extended lecture on the benefits of a heated bathroom floor and wanted to throw myself out a window to escape. I guess I exited the class slowly, without thinking about it, and have no place in contemporary power structures. Between the hatred by some on the right (please note the some, I grew up in a small town and don’t think everyone to my right is a monster) and the callous disregard and finger waving from the moderate centre (I don’t worship Ezra Klein, and I refuse to be the scapegoat for the Dem’s failures), I don’t have a dog in this fight anymore.
I don’t know why I’m writing this except to say… I’m not that sad about it? The people I know may be laptop trained, but we’re all pretty quick on the uptake. I’ll partner with anyone unless they actually hate me, and most people are pretty cool. Maybe this is that class solidarity the old hippies talked about. I’ve written laws (yay policy) and I’ve washed floors so I’m pretty confident I can make myself useful. I’m learning to play music again. I have my people, and we’ll survive all the scapegoating and bad-faith arguments in the world and when the madness pauses we’ll regroup and prep and do it all again.
I’m taking a pass through this thought, which you considered important enough to mention three times 🙂 “…the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology.”
And the specific word that stuck out to me is the word “assigned”…
So, I’m thinking about the ways in which we (as members of society) participate in the matter of assigning status to one another.
And I’m thinking that the roots of the word “status” are related to the word “standing” and one always stands in a place. In terms of society, one stands in a place defined by the totality of one’s social relationships, both with actual others and with potential others. Such a place may be within a hierarchy, but need not be. Some environmental conditions favour deeper and more complex hierarchical social groupings, and some favour much flatter, more acephalous social groupings, but there are few human beings, under any set of conditions, who can long tolerate having no “place” within some set of social relations, however deeply or shallowly layered.
So, if we set this sense of panic into a broader context than the strictly hierarchical one, it raises the happy prospect that we (as social beings) may actually have a certain capacity to shore one another up against the panic of being/becoming socially placeless, at least on small scales and face-to-face. We actually know how to grant “place” to one another and often practice “place-giving” strategies, like offering respect, granting acknowledgement, deeply “seeing” one another, spending time together, telling stories about one another’s doings and sayings, laughing, dancing, eating and drinking together, sharing sorrows together, and so on, at least with friends and family members. It is not necessary that the “places” we set be either above ours or below ours, it may be that being offered a place “beside” someone we care about, at any table of good cheer, might of itself stave off at least the worst of the kind of panic you discuss.
Anyway, I’ll go off and think some more. Be well, stay free.
@Katherine Halton 40
That decline has been ongoing for many decades at this point. Not only has the vigor of Faustian culture faded, American elites gave up emphasis on the canon of great Classical, biblical, & European cultural achievements* for studying science and technology, then lowered the standards to a commom core. From what public school teachers on the Internet are saying, education quality, or students’ willingness to learn, further deteriorated in the wake of the CoronaPanic.
*Disclaimer: I don’t know most of them either.
@Roldy (#37):
My take on Trump’s recent behavior is
(1) that Presidents actually don’t have all that much real power to make binding policy decisions, but are kept isolated from real life by their security apparatus, and thus easily manipulated by their “subordinate” staff (from Cabinet members on downward) and experts;
(2) that his early upbringing under the influence of New Thought (in the person of his childhood pastor, the Reverend Norman Vincent Peale) gave him a highly inflated notion of human (and his own) ability to bend the real world to his desires;
(3) that like many a naturally gifted con-artist, he never had to become skilled at his con-artistry to recognize when he is being conned by another con-artist with superior skills; and
(4) that Trump is experiencing the cognitive decline that often comes with advancing age.
I wish Trump had the intestinal fortitude to behave as you describe him behaving. Instead, while he is making some cuts, its hard to discern if he has any consistent plan in mind, or really understands the long term dynamic of decline in any serious way. As usual,I find your analysis of the ongoing dynamic useful and on point.
It seems to me that the MICCC still rules – Military Industrial Congress Critter Complex. A large defense budget increase and possible Middle East war. So much for financial austerity. In any case a big piece of the budget can’t be cut easily and rises automatically. interest payments and Social Security/Medicare/Disability now around 53% of the spending. Leaving budget cuts to be taken out of the remaining 47%. The current deficit is around 26%. Taking that out of the 47% – not going to happen. We are fracked.
Thank you for your perspective on a hot topic within my own family. My sister is amid her fall from grace as a servitor of the laptop-cracy. She’s risen from being a lowly psychologist and academic to leading feel-good tours for rich karens. Unfortunately, the middle class is fleeing the state where she lives while the laptop class thrashes. So much for her client base. As a Douglas Adams fan, she is quite annoyed that I pointed out the similarity of her position and defenses of it to the character in the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy series who makes good money telling rich people it’s okay to be rich. Suggesting she move back to the Rust Belt and help clean up the mess her votes made by working with victims of the opiate epidemic, veterans, &c. was less than warmly received. What about the wellness model? She fears the social media backlash for such deviance from the party line.
Sigh.
Suggestions for how to deal with her are very welcome.
R
First: “let me be explicit here: the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by by society, not by biology.” Do I hear echoes of Stephen Jay Gould here? Not everyone agrees with Mr. Gould though everyone admits that he was great with words.
I was in the USAF in the Fall of 1969 during a worldwide alert that wasn’t publicized, then or now. But you’d surely have known about it if you were in the US military then. My unit dispersed our interceptors, flight crews and maintenance crews out to remote sites for about two weeks. We understood that this was a world-wide alert. This all remained secret until about 2000 when it was declassified. There’s now a book about it: “Nixon’s Nuclear Specter: The Secret Alert of 1969, Madman Diplomacy, and the Vietnam War” by Wm. Burr & Jeffry P. Kimball, published in 2015. The key phrase here is “Madman Diplomacy.” Nixon had to work at it to make the Russians think he was just crazy enough to do something very rash. Our current guy doesn’t even have to work at it to lead folks to the same conclusion. Let’s hope he’s not really that crazy. What do I really think about Israel and Iran? You don’t want to know.
On Rome compared to the US, and “Little, Big”: We have been welcoming the barbarians with open arms and free cell phones; not that we don’t already have plenty of low skilled idle “workers” who could do farm labor, etc. without having to invite more in. I’ve now completed three readings of “Little, Big.” It’s a charming book but with an unconvincing conclusion. Eigenblick vs Trump and the general decline does make a lot of sense. But there’s a lot else that doesn’t.
I am especially curious about the fate of the medicine class. Our society seems unique in the reverence that we have for medical doctors, both in social status and financial reward. Medical doctors are undoubtedly among the highest in status, and although it has taken a hit during the Covid area, the aura is still there. I applaud Robbert Kennedy’s attempts at reforming the health care system, but I am not sure even he will be able to break that pattern.
One possibility that could break the status of physicians may be AI/LLM’s taking on a part of medicine in America, and as I believe that AI’s are already able to outperform a lot of doctors, that may be a real improvement for most of us, at the expense of the human physicians. Mind you, that I think the role of practitioners of natural medicine may increase alongside of this, I don’t think they will ever rise to the level that MD’s currently hold, although that may be a good thing.
Mr. House @ 41, I found your comment most intriguing. Could you please explain what is an “event horizon”? Sure, showing my ignorance, I know, but that sounds like a phenomenon I need to understand.
JMG, I would like gently to add to your excellent analysis that there is also the merchant class, the folks who make their livings buying and selling on brightly colored pieces of plastic. They also, considered as a social class, are showing increasing incompetence and panic. There was once a series of home invasion robberies in a town where I lived–no one was physically hurt–which targeted business persons who had the insane idea of taking their weeks’ earnings home. Come to find out, it was domestic staff, housekeepers and such, who were tipping off their relatives, the robbers. The phrase how dumb can a person be comes to mind.
Something fascinating just clicked into place:
a) Part of the claim to power the current elites have is that advertisers and PR have the ability to mold the human mind like putty.
b) Part of the Trumpian phenomena is that a large number of people are not playing along with this script. Trump won in 2016 despite a concerted effort on the part of nearly the entire PR system to destroy him; in large part he won because he figured out how to use the PR system against itself.
c) The comfortable classes are responding to this by doubling down on the claims to PR’s power. This is both attempting to use it to advance more insane positions (such as biology does not matter when discussing gender), but also in their utter refusal to think critically about anything that the PR system says.
There are tons of people I know who seem to have lost the ability to think critically about anything the mass media says, and this provides a perfect explanation: it is part of the process by which the laptop classes are trying to convince themselves their power is permanent.
Jill, thanks for this. I hope some recognition of the role played by status panic will make dealing with TDS sufferers easier.
Wer, nah, don’t worry about it. This promises to be a very busy post and so I need to keep the conversation on topic.
Robert, thanks for this! You’re right about the criminal class, too. I recently had the chance to pick up a copy of Francis Grose’s A Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue from 1788, which includes a vast amount of criminal slang from Regency England — enough to make it clear that there was a full-sized class of criminals at that time, as of course in ours as well. The number of criminal specialties in 1788 was impressive…
Patricia M, and thanks for this. Yeah, that’s about what I expected the media to be doing.
Team10tim, er, you’ll excuse my autism, but I trust that’s a joke.
David, if the French rather than the English had taken over India, we’d probably all be speaking French now. Looting India of all its wealth was what gave Britain the basis for its global empire; I could see the same thing centered in Paris, with Britain probably reduced to the status of conquered province ruled by an Irish viceroy.
WatchFlinger, interesting. Despite the legal prohibition, there were various modes of downward mobility in Tokugawa Japan — of course the most accessible of them was to get killed in a duel, which plenty did!
Isaac, there’s also the huge difference between the cultural contexts! Indian society makes ample room for minute specializations — it’s evolved that capacity over millennia. Ours, by contrast, still privileges the jack of many trades.
Jason, if that were the case, then social mobility wouldn’t happen, and women wouldn’t have improved their status so drastically in recent decades. Even in baboon troops, it’s not always the biggest and strongest male who runs things — quite often two smaller but more clever males will double-team the alpha and defeat him, for example. All through the pyramid, status is always changing, because your status doesn’t depend on this or that abstract factor — it depends on who wins which conflict, by hook or by crook.
RogerCO, of course! Also a book of conundrums in case of fainting.
Jerry, those chickens are the wave of the future. (Now I’m imagining a chicken in Greek warrior gear cutting the Gordian knot…)
Earthworm, I ain’t arguing. My experience is that it’s sometimes possible to take control from the baboon mind, but it ain’t easy, and most people won’t make the effort. That being the case, yeah, a lot of sinking can be expected.
Scotty, oh, granted! “The future is here, it’s just not evenly distributed yet” — nor will it ever be.
Scotlyn, hmm! Yes, that also works.
Clay, India in particular has had very precise social classes welded into place for millennia, and hyperspecialization is the norm there. It doesn’t surprise me that people from there would find our more flexible patterns baffling. At the same time, yeah, the pretense that America has no social classes is an absurd one.
Longsword, I simply let it be known, while I was in England, that we wouldn’t be talking about politics because Britain doesn’t have a Bill of Rights. Nobody quibbled.
Anselmo, thank you, but I disagree. I’m just far enough out on the fringes that I have some perspective.
Mark, thanks for this. I’m glad to hear that you found a constructive way through it all.
Roldy, yep. Now all of it faces pruning.
Mister N, that habit of beating up on oneself is part of the mechanism by which the system enforces obedience. You were taught to do it, and you can unlearn that — as I gather you are now doing.
Tris, we’ll have to see. Elite replacement cycles always involve a lot of squawking and flailing.
Gerry, me too.
Roldy, we can discuss that some other time, as it’s off topic for this post.
Absolutely, depends on your definition of “clever.” It’s certainly true that men and women tend to different modes of mental development.
Katherine, excellent. Yes, exactly — the current elite replacement cycle is only an incident in the broader arc of Faustian civilization’s decline and fall.
Earthworm, a male Karen is a Kenneth. I’m not sure as to the exact origins, but iirc it’s the latest in a long series of African-American pejoratives for privileged white women — “Miss Ann” was the one used before 1865, for example. As for usage, no, “b***h” has a much broader range of connotations and applications, as do terms for men such as “jerk” and “***hole.” “Karen” is much more specific. You don’t have to be privileged and blustering to be a puppy’s momma!
Teresa, no, I haven’t been there — I’ll keep it in mind. As for speaking to the manager, I’d be willing to bet that you were polite and friendly, rather than charging in there to demand special treatment!
Jean, so noted! It interests me that so many former DC-area bureaucrats I know say the same things you do.
Teresa, trust Hoffer to catch that.
Kimberly, thanks for this. As for Miller’s failed prediction, no, he had the grace to be bewildered, baffled, and disappointed.
Patrick, I know that book well — we had a complete set of the series in my childhood home. It wasn’t until later that I found that similar patterns are found all through social vertebrates.
Tom, and if going into the street is what you feel you have to do, by all means. Just be aware of how much, or little, an effect that’s had in recent decades.
Frank, you’re welcome.
Vitranc, fortunately not — a few sharp words online are usually quite adequate. As for Europe, it’s going to have to make similar changes in due time; with the US no longer paying for NATO’s defense, a lot of changes are going to follow.
Anonymous, fair enough! As for downward mobility, yes, I know that one well. Sara and I were both raised at the lower end of the middle class, and our decision to embrace downward mobility got quite a bit of pushback from our families.
Michaelz, bingo. I notice that Trump has also backed off on his attempt to allow farms and some other industries to escape immigration raids.
Wer, oof! That must have been an unpleasant experience.
Michael, I avoid bringing up such subjects when I can, precisely because so many well-off white people do in fact go full chimpanzee when they come up. Clearly you got his goat good and proper!
Pygmycory, US law doesn’t permit continuing programs to be cut in a reconciliation bill like the one in question. That requires a second, independent bill to shut down programs — and one of those is working its way through the House right now.
Ahriman, of course! The laptop class, like every aristocracy, moves toward a condition in which an endless proliferation of self-perpetuating grifts funnel an ever larger share of wealth toward the privileged. That continues until the bottom falls out.
Steve, exactly. All the various political hot-button issues of recent decades are ways to target and remove potential competitors among the laptop class. That’s all they are, and all they ever were.
Allie001, I’m delighted to hear this. One of the other crucial factors at work in the present transition is that the Boomers are finally being shoved out of the seats of power to which they’ve clung for far too long. (Yes, we’re talking about my g-g-g-g-generation.) A lot of younger people, who’ve been shut out of access to wealth and influence by our current senile kleptocracy, have developed skills and flexibilities that most Boomers lack utterly.
Scotlyn, good. I chose the term “assigned” very deliberately, of course.
Jerry, Trump has no clue; he’s simply moving in response to a situation that neither he nor anyone else in power really undestands. As Spengler pointed out a long time ago, successful politicians aren’t people with an abstract conceptual grasp of the world, but rather people who have an intuitive sense of what to do at any given moment.
BeardTree, ah, but factor in the significant fraction of social security et al. that’s pure fraud…
Rhydlyd, I have no idea. I’d probably just chuckle at her.
Phutatorius, I found Gould well worth reading and reflecting on. As for Little, Big, oh, literally it doesn’t work, but it’s not meant to be read literally.
Peter, my take is that the medical profession is in for a dramatic plunge in income and status. Between the absurd profiteering and the increasingly obvious failure of the system to provide good health, the profession has forfeited the trust of health care consumers; I see Kennedy as pursuing a last ditch attempt to save the system, which will fail.
Mary, good gods. Can you point me to news stories about that? I’d love to be able to cite them in an upcoming post.
Anonymous, exactly! And in the process, they’re setting themselves up for failure and humiliation.
That explains why so many got a kick out of this:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-dont-really-care-margaret
From the reaction, it’s like Vance said “I don’t really care, Karen.”
I was hugely impressed with Nemours. They give outstanding access to the house too, far more so than is usual with grand estates.
There is no café, so bring a picnic lunch (areas are provided) rather than venture into the wilds of Wilmington, wasting precious time that could be spent gawking at the spectacular landscaping.
At the very far end of the property, there’s a temple to Diana (I think). You stand there and gaze up a mile or so of sloped landscaped allées, a sunken garden, water features, a maze garden, huge gilded statues, a Roman wall (they’re not in this order), ultra-formal flower gardens, and, finally, the château.
Much of the estate, what’s left of it, is surrounded by a high masonry wall with broken glass embedded in the top. On the other side of the landscaping is Nemours hospital and Wilmington’s shooting galleries.
It is astonishing and utterly unlike the other four DuPont gardens in the area.
Welcome back to this odd place, JMG, just in time to enjoy its herky-jerky in full. I hope you were refreshed and inspired by your journey. And a belated happy birthday!
Enjoyable essay, food for thought. Assigned class, biological responses thereto. I look forward to discerning more fully how I can achieve a more conscious approach to my specific situation in that picture.
Class is a complicated and very nuanced phenomenon, as evidenced by some comments here and in my own life. I’ve been surfing waves of downward mobility mostly all my life, frustrating my family’s expectations, coming through the complex social arrangements I’ve encountered beginning with those of my quasi-aristocratic Southern family nest. Connections to the Burr family (Aaron’s sisters’ kin), and DAR on all sides, etc., political connections, comfort, if not the mad pinnacles suffered by the nouveau riche and movie stars. Long left behind. So far falling more like a leaf than a rock. Good karma, that.
I have lately been spending time with a truly nice bunch of folks of a certain age who are just now encountering the real joy one can experience by leaving monkey-mind behind briefly using the myriad tools that can give one a taste of that. Led by a woman who has spent some good length of time herself in acquiring and using them and now teaching them. Kudos to her, for that.
However, I suspect that boomer entitlement may play a part in the unbridled optimism expressed in these meetings, that if you can dwell in that mind, you can (with genuine intuition) successfully navigate the shoals and difficulties of life. Given that biology does play a large part in consciousness and that with triggering or other (such as actual kinetic warfare) conditions, mostly that awareness vanishes like dandelion puffs in a strong breeze. While it’s true that genuine enlightened minds seem to be able to experience even the most difficult situations as pain and not suffering (I have observed this in a few, I think), the path from occasionally experiencing the Great Connectedness to dwelling in it consistently is much more complicated than is being advertised.
It’s a good thing to do, of course, touching the Great Connectedness, but even when attempting to free oneself from expectations, circumstances supervene and they crash in on us like tidal waves. Rather like the effort to free oneself from the myth of progress. The breakdown of a long cycle is more of a challenge than many imagine, or can imagine.
I guess what I’m alluding to is that we have to gird our loins as it were, and prepare seriously as adult grown-up people to encounter the rapids ahead. Some of us were better set up for that effort than others, but sooner or later (I’m talking to you, darling PMC puppies) everyone will have to. Or be used as computer-slaves in brain-capsules in spaceships run by insectile beings (see WOH).
JMG, you wrote, “All this instability made upward mobility one of the basic elements of the American credo, as whole generations conveniently forgot that where there is upward mobility there must be downward mobility to balance it.”
Fortune’s Wheel indeed. (I’m not talking about that insipid game show.) These days I think that both the surface and axle of the Wheel have been liberally greased.
Also, “When news of the Russian Revolution was brought to Nicholas II, the last Tsar of Russia, at his comfortably secluded palace at Tsarskoe Selo, he is said to have responded in baffled and plaintive tones: ‘But the Russian people love me!’ ”
When told that his father was abdicating for himself and his son, the Tsarevich is reputed to have said, “But if there is no Tsar, who will rule Russia?”
JMG, thanks so much. Thanks for explaining this. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. I’m wondering if RFKjr gets his way and bans most pharma ads, is the propaganda structure that keeps the illusion? From what you are saying the TDS is only likely to get worse. Also, a big chunk of the right is following the flow of money that seems to be financing the unrest. https://datarepublican.com/ Your model suggests that facts are irrelevant, and even public records with EIN banking numbers attached will be memory holed. Yikes. It’s going to be maximum drama at some point.
Speaking for the medical personnel knowingly or unknowingly enjoying the concerto on the Titanic; what would be your advice for a youngish medical doctor working on her residency in a local hospital?
I imagine setting oneself up for a private practice and getting some books on herbal medicine. (Already ordered two Matthew Wood books)
@scotlyn: I got my own now. No duel necessary 😉
Continuing from where I left off, I think the best way to cope with “status panic” is the old Medieval adage “Memento Mori” (“Remember your Death”).
The Orthodox funeral service has some moving hymnography around this:
“All worldly things are vanity, and do not survive after death; riches do not remain, nor does glory travel with us on the way; for when death comes, all these vanish away. Wherefore let us cry out to Christ the immortal King: Give rest to the one departed from us, in the dwelling place where all rejoice.”
“Where is the attraction of the world? Where the illusion of transient things? Where is gold and where is silver? Where the throng and bustle of servants? All is dust, all is ashes, all a
shadow. But come let us cry out to the immortal King: Lord, make the one departed from us worthy of your eternal blessings, in blessedness that has no end.
“I remembered the Prophet crying out: I am earth and dust; and again I looked in the tombs and saw the naked bones, and I said: Who is this? King or soldier, rich or poor, righteous or sinner? But give rest among the righteous to your servant, O Lord, as a loving God. ”
That sure puts loss of status in perspective!
This is a synchronistic post. I’m just finishing up a book called The Trickster and the Paranormal, by George P. Hansen, which despite the title is very pertinent to a post on status loss. There’s a good chance you’re aware of it so I’ll try not to be too pedantic in my summary, but the throughline of the book, which covers a dizzying array of topics from anthropology to literary theory to UFOs, is that societies are structural. They thrive on explicit and tacit social roles and relationships, order, stability, and status.
Hansen argues that the archetype of the trickster manifests through situations and people that are marginal, liminal, taboo-breaking, and low status. He doesn’t mean this metaphorically, he’s quite magically literate.
One of the things the trickster does is break down decadent structures so that new ones can be built in their places. He is irrational, disrespectful of rule and order, often engages in sexual deviance (which can range from celibacy to promiscuity and perversion), and he is associated with low status individuals, either being low status himself or sacrificing his status. It’s in these situations that Hansen argues paranormal phenomena, magic, and the Trickster manifest, and any attempt to tighten the grip on them inevitably backfires since they can’t be dealt with in terms of the dominant rationality.
You’ve made the argument yourself that Trump is a manifestation of the Changer, so of course he is demolishing old status roles and initiating a reversal of position (another classic trickster event, as when a king and pauper trade places, or a husband and wife, etc.). Thus it will be the people on the margins who acknowledge the Trickster and accept certain upheavals without losing their sanity who come out best. He seems to undo those who fall deeply into his grip just as well as those who oppose him.
Those nouveaux-riches and Karens? Like you argued, they are trying to cement new status. Sadly for the Karens, they have chosen a time in which all statuses are flailing in the wind, and trying to seat themselves on a crumbling throne won’t work.
Trump has been on a meteoric rise, breaking taboos to get ahead. There’s a lot of power to be wielded in taboo-breaking, but its inherently unstable. I think he runs a few risks: 1) becoming an entrenched elite himself, trying to stop the events he started while he is still on top and then suffering as they run right over him, and 2) delusional madness. So far he’s remained in the middle ground. I don’t see him being driven from office unless he betrays the archetype that got him there, or drinks his own Kool-Aid.
If he does, someone will replace him before his corpse is cold, and on it goes.
The marginal readers of this marginal blog should be in good position to ride out the storm, sine we’re willing to acknowledge a trickster episode when we see one and don’t have much status to cling to.
This is a profound insight, and it seems to match the reality in most first world nations. Of course, the elite replacement cycle is at different stages depending on the country. I’d say it’s largely a function of how over-extended the country is. I’ve developed, partially out of self-protection, partially out of amusement, a two fold approach that works to identify the Karens and Colins (does anyone have a name for a male Karen).
Firstly, don’t talk how you write. Having spent long enough around rural people, I’ve noticed that their verbal skills belie their intelligence, it’s a factor of a long time alone and in your own head. A lack of verbal polish, or a deliberate attempt not to use fancy words almost automatically identifies those of certain laptop classes that want to pour scorn on you. It’s a great early warning device.
Secondly, talk about energy reality. That’s a sure fire way of having not just the laptop classes, but nearly everyone else, trying to cancel you 😉
Nemo, exactly. Vance was baring his teeth in proper baboon style.
Teresa, so noted!
Clarke, that’s a crucial point. Higher states of awareness can be extremely useful for navigating crises — ask any samurai whose Zen practice helped him chop his way through a battle in one piece — but it requires a certain tough-mindedness that a lot of current schools know nothing of. Plenty of winnowing and testing ahead!
Bird, ha! The Tsarevich’s current equivalents are saying, “But if there are no bureaucrats, who will file form 2234-E-36 annually?”
Bradley, if RFK gets his way on pharma advertising, what’s left of corporate media will go into financial freefall very quickly, and I’ll be cheering. As for the financial backers of the latest astroturfed protests, that won’t affect the beliefs of TDS sufferers, but it may have consequences involving judges, prisons, and the like. No doubt a century from now the Resistance, probably living in exile by then, will commemorate the imprisonment of those backers as yet another set of martyrs for their cause, but that’ll be cold consolation.
Vitranc, it really depends on local conditions and legal arrangements. Here in the US, the smart doctors are dropping out of the big health care corporations, refusing to take insurance, and offering health care to individuals for relatively modest cash fees, the way it was done a century ago. “Concierge medicine” is the buzzword here.
Michael, that’ll do it! Good old-fashioned Stoicism teaches similar lessons, and offers a lovely bucket of ice cold water in the face to shock people out of the status trance.
Kyle, I’ve seen it but haven’t read it — and just ordered a used copy. That sounds well worth a close read.
Peter, so noted! I’m pretty much stuck talking the way I write, because both of them are exact reflections of the way I think — my thoughts are all in spoken language — but the other one, yeah, I bet I can do that. 😉
Oh, and at least in the US, a male Karen is a Kenneth.
Earthworm #42 – The male equivalent of Karen is Jared.
How appropriate your comments are John! The human lizard brain is indeed evolutionary in its function, and we don’t even know sometimes as it reacts to a threat like a hit and run driver, or its equivalent, some thought that pops up and similarly ignites the automatic response mechanism of fight or flight. We can’t just print money and make the economic problems disappear. It’s time to reassess value, meaning, and be in action creatively. It’d be nice if we didn’t have a world war to accomplish what needs accomplishing. Part of process of change maybe are ways to have authentic conversations and actually listen to the arguments of others. listen for the gold! Pushing keys and sending electronic diatribes on social media sites isn’t being in action it doesn’t manufacture useful items, and doesn’t create jobs making those useful items.
Welcome back, JMG. An enjoyable post, as usual. Though I would take issue with your characterization of Trump as a hard-nosed CEO cutting wasteful expenditures. His Big Beautiful Bill keeps the most wasteful spending intact – giant corporate tax cuts that will explode the deficit by trillions.
JMG,
So many times while I was reading the book I thought of ideas that you’d put forward, and wondered if the author weren’t familiar with your blog, but then realized he published the book in 2001, before the ADR started. He even makes points such as, after discussing Max Weber’s disenchantment, noting a couple of times later in the text that it is only a waning of the elite awareness of enchantment, rather than enchantment itself, as magic and psi are still everywhere in society. I think you’ll find plenty to chew on.
I’m intrigued by the idea that Trump is prepping the country for bankruptcy. Unapologetic conspiracy theorist that I am, I was a bit puzzled as to why Trump was allowed to win the election last year. I believe that Trump’s great sin – the one that sent his opponents over the edge – was winning the 2016 election without permission. The people running the show thought the fix was in for Hillary; but apparently it wasn’t fixed enough. Well, they fixed it good in 2020; and I couldn’t figure out why they wouldn’t have done the same in 2024.
It begins to make sense if we think that Trump was allowed to win for a reason. It also explains why his administration is going gangbusters on some projects, while quietly forgetting about other issues. Perhaps he had to make certain concessions in order to get the job.
This may be overselling it, but for whatever it’s worth, I strongly second Kyle’s recommentation of The Trickster and the Paranormal. I’d place it in the top five– or at least the top ten– books that most strongly influenced my own thinking, alongside works like the Republic or the Enneads. Or, for that matter, the mashup of your own books on magic that my mind simply files under “JMG.” I suspect you’ll find the chapter on CSICOP particularly amusing.
It says something that JMG’s two weeks in the UK made him muse about the class system!
Aren’t the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy at least influenced by biology? Sex differences seem an obvious example. Yes, there have been matriarchal societies, but these appear broadly uncompetitive relative to patriarchal ones (perhaps because confidence vis-a-vis paternity is important in inspiring men to fight for their families). To the extent that hormones are involved in determining things like aggressiveness, then this suggests that the biological basis of social stratification might be extended even to same-gender competition.
team10tim (no. 16): That movie has a lot of sequel possibilities. In fact, I heard they may film several movies simultaneously.
Sad to say, I have a friend who’s name is actually Karen who is changing her name!
earthworm (no. 42), the leading theories are that it refers either to the Karen people of Burma, whose Christian converts formed a sort of compradore class during British colonial rule; or to former Armenian prime minister Karen Karapetyan (who is a man; served 2016-2018), for his role in the 2011 protests.
On the 4 AM Club, there is a great comic series called “The Department of Truth” (think X-Files) whose premise is that the mind creates reality. Specifically, whatever most people believe to be true, becomes true as soon as the majority comes to believe it, whether that means the Flat Earth, Bigfoot, or the ascendancy of the United States.
Kimberly Steele (no. 48): ” How did William Miller explain himself once April 1844 rolled in without apocalyptic consequence? Did anybody call him out on his error or did he just keep going?”
He confessed his error and acknowledged his disappointment.
Michael Martin (no. 57), you’d think that atheists would be more likely to doubt other dubious claims, e.g. on transgenderism, but that was not the reaction I got.
Both “moral” and “immoral” behavior seem hard-wired into us as potentialities. Most of us learn to identify with the first, but evolution has made us capable of the second for good reason–because when times are tough, people do what they have to do.
Thinking more about the theme. Are Trump and Musk not “robber barons”?
Many people go through a similar status loss when they immigrate. Nobody cares that the taxi driver has a M. Sc., the driving instructor a PhD, or that the delivery guy once was a bank manager. Nobody takes a moment to consider that the immigrant may sound much more impressive or intelligent or may be much funnier in their native tongue.
It is a healthy lesson in caring less about other people’s opinions of oneself.
Excellent post JMG and welcome back! There are some great comments here already. I was really interested in your response to Drhooves: ” I’ve assumed all along that the further we get into the Long Descent, the fewer people will be willing to grasp what’s happening, because the widening gap between the image of the future that undergirds their identities and the actual future that’s happening will be too painful to deal with.”
I’ve found myself baffled over and over in situations where a particular policy or strategy is obviously counterproductive, but no amount of facts, data, examples, or cajoling can get people to abandon their position. The capacity for folks to double down, and then double down again really is amazing to me.
A while ago I heard a great observation: “most people are just going through life making animal noises.” It really is all too true. And while I like to pretend I am not one of them, there are probably more times when my Dimetrodon brain is running the show than I would like to admit…
Hi JMG,
I like your analogy of “Karens” to the nouveau riche – I think that’s really insightful.
I think you are right, and that part of the reaction to Trump is a form of “status panic”. However, it would be a mistake to cast all criticisms of Trump in these terms, and even if someone has a case of status panic, that doesn’t mean that their criticisms of Trumpism are ill founded or incorrect.
For example, the Nazis represent an example of “elite replacement” in Germany. I’m sure there were people at the time who experienced status panic but were nevertheless making valid criticisms of the Nazis. (JMG has previously highlighted such things with his sketch of Fred Halliot’s rise to power)
To be clear, JMG, I am not saying that you are making this error — but I think a casual reader could easily do so. Also, I know the Nazis are a fraught example – while I am not convinced that Trump is currently planning to create a dictatorship, I think it’s possible that the movement *could* lead the USA in that direction.
-Gob
Hmm. That would explain something I’ve observed: the breakdowns and impaired cognition seem concentrated in those who are either first-generation laptop class or children of laptop-class parents who like to think of themselves as more bohemian than their antecedents.
The more genteel end of the laptop class of my acquaintance, the ones who come from old Southern money whose families place some of their scions in the professions and in academia as well as in business, are relatively unbothered, but they cannot be described as strivers by any means, and derive most of their class superiority from something other than bureaucratic “meritocracy.”
Isn’t society a biological entity though? An egregore based on social instinct, and a collection of more transient shared habits.
Larryu, my electronic diatribes don’t create jobs, but I’m glad to say the equivalents I publish in print do — I help keep a couple of publishers in business, you know.
EcoEric, he didn’t write the bill; Congress did, and as mentioned already, current law prohibits terminating existing programs in a reconciliation bill. Another bill is in the House right now that will start the clawback process.
Kyle, I’ll look forward to it.
Weilong, of course Trump had to make concessions, and he has to keep on negotiating with existing power centers to get any of his platform enacted. He’s not a dictator; he’s an elected official in a society full of competing power centers and pressure groups.
Steve, so noted!
Ambrose, well, there was that! To American eyes, England is astonishingly class-ridden. As for biology, assuming that a capacity for individual physical combat is the basis for our current class system strikes me as astoundingly simpleminded. Most working class guys could mop the floor with the CEOs of the corporations with whom they work, you know.
AnnM, that’s too bad, but it happens. “Gay” used to be a woman’s name, for example!
Ambrose, of course they are. The entrepreneurial class is tolerably close to the class that founded the ascendancy of the capitalist class in the 1860s and 1870s. Thus it wouldn’t surprise me if in 2100 or so, the new class that elbows the decadent entrepreneurial class out of the way gets its power from rural agricultural holdings, like the old plantation class.
Aldarion, a fine point!
Samurai_47, exactly. Human beings simply aren’t that smart, and even the cleverest of us can only make use of genuine rationality now and then. The rest of the time, it’s the brainstem talking.
Gob, er, that’s why I specifically included the following words in my post: “Mind you, I have no objection if people want to criticize Trump—no politician should ever be immune to criticism, and I’ve got my own objections to some of the things the current US administration has done—but there’s a difference between thoughtful criticism and the endless rehashing of partisan talking points.”
Jennifer, fascinating. That makes sense.
Ahem, nope. Biological entities evolve at the speed of genetic drift; social entities evolve much faster, which is why you’re probably not doing the same job, with the same tools, as your great-great-grandfather. Biology provides a floor atop which the very different forces of social change operate.
JMG wrote,
Peter, my take is that the medical profession is in for a dramatic plunge in income and status. Between the absurd profiteering and the increasingly obvious failure of the system to provide good health, the profession has forfeited the trust of health care consumers; I see Kennedy as pursuing a last ditch attempt to save the system, which will fail.
Could you please say a bit more about how/why/when you think this plunge of income/status might happen?
Could you please explain how you think Kennedy is trying to save the system. All I hear around me is that he is destructive?
Thanks,
Edward
Kind Sir,
What an excellent essay.
I was not aware that the term begrudge is of Irish origin.
We call the same behaviour “cutting the tall poppy”. The official interpretation is that it is a proof of Australian egalitarianism, but this could not be further from the truth. It is applied against talented and ambitious mid to low status individuals. And it serves as a useful tool for high status individuals. Any form of criticism can be defused by invoking the “Tall Poppy Syndrome”.
I guess status panic elegantly explains the proliferation of status symbols over the last decades. And all the virtue (and vice) signalling.
Very entertaining to watch people using cars that are not really designed to be useful, living in houses that are primarily not made for living in and express opinions that should be rolled up in a tight little ball and relocated to a place of perpetual darkness. An all that just to convince themselves and others that they are upwardly mobile in spite of all the evidence.
Hi John Michael,
Hope your travels were enjoyable, fruitful with at least one, or maybe even two, pints of dark ale?
Status is a funny thing, and is best assessed by other people. It of course should be obvious and if set correctly, walk into a room – and at a glance other people will know the score. And good grace is a marker of high status.
Sadly I was probably not brought up right because I care not a whit for status.
Yes, I’ve observed the whole social display of perpetual dissatisfaction as in: ‘I demand to speak to the manager’. If I may observe, such folks place no value on relationships and appear as that wonderful US word which is rarely heard down here: Grifters. Theft can take many forms, and social climbing by bringing others down is one of those.
And yeah, none are as insecure as the nouveau riche.
Since you brought the subject up – don’t blame me 😊 – I too was in shock, and things were worse down here than anywhere else on the planet. An enviable achievement.
Cheers
Chris
JMG, welcome back. And a belated happy birthday too!
For @Peter too: My two cents concerning the medical profession. Yes, medicine is extremely expensive and absurdly wasteful. It consumes an enormous amount of resources, of which nobody reuses almost nothing and often choose the most expensive and complex treatment in nearly every situation, frequently for only a marginal increase in patient safety. That said, medicine is also a very broad field, and there are areas within it where the results are unquestionable — it works, plain and simple. I would place anesthesia and some surgical specialties in that category. On the other hand, I believe you’re absolutely right when it comes to specialties that rely more heavily on marginal outcomes and costly research — like oncology.
JMG: “As for biology, assuming that a capacity for individual physical combat is the basis for our current class system strikes me as astoundingly simpleminded. ”
Of course, but acknowledging role for biological influence doesn’t have to boil down to that. Numerous personality traits seem to have a genetic and/or hormonal basis–sociopathy, aggression, nurturing tendencies, etc. Many of these suggest particular reproductive strategies and social roles, e.g. the Chads and Virgins of 4Chan (whose influence Rudyard Lynch compared to hip-hop, by the way), even if it’s far from absolute. Think about the type of person who becomes a trial lawyer, or a politician. Physical combat is rarely the most important trait–it is Archie Andrews, not Conan the Barbarian, who inherits the earth. And there must be good reasons why men and women have evolved to have different characteristic personalities, just as there are for why those personalities change as we age. (Women tend to toughen up, while men mellow.) These traits seem designed to encourage particular types of behavior, at different stages of the reproductive cycle.
JMG,
When I go up North, people seem oddly nervous to me, like they’re worried about falling behind in some sort of ineffable way. I’ve always put this down to some kind of Calvinist/Puritan hangover. Now I’m wondering if it’s because your class status in the South is more stable and still determined by the older hierarchies to a greater extent, so the overall class anxiety is lower. The DC area was the worst—I was constantly on edge because everyone seemed to be radiating a sort of frantic hamster energy. Hmm indeed.
Thanks. Chuckle is a good response to a highly competent professional behaving so foolishly… but… I’m sad that nobody’s called us the Wonder Twins lately since she is suddenly too hip to join me in wolf-suiting up to make mischief of one kind and another.
The laptop class is getting pruned all right, this is all last few days news.
“In a memo to employees on Tuesday, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy said that the company’s corporate workforce will shrink in the coming years as it adopts more generative AI tools and agents. “We will need fewer people doing some of the jobs that are being done today, and more people doing other types of jobs,” Jassy said. “It’s hard to know exactly where this nets out over time, but in the next few years, we expect that this will reduce our total corporate workforce.” CNBC reports:”
“U.S. public companies have cut their white-collar workforces by 3.5% over the past three years, marking a fundamental shift in corporate philosophy that views fewer employees as a path to faster growth. One in five S&P 500 companies now employ fewer people than they did a decade ago, according to employment data-provider Live Data Technologies.
The reductions extend beyond typical cost-cutting measures and coincide with record corporate profits at the end of last year. Amazon CEO Andy Jassy told employees Tuesday that AI will eliminate certain jobs in coming years, while Procter & Gamble announced plans to cut 7,000 positions to create “broader roles and smaller teams.”
Bank of America reduced its workforce from 285,000 in 2010 to 213,000 today while revenues climbed 18% over the past decade. Managers have faced particularly steep cuts, with their ranks falling 6.1% between May 2022 and May 2025. Companies are flattening organizational structures and pushing remaining employees to handle larger workloads as executives track revenue per employee more closely.”
“Microsoft is planning to ax thousands of jobs, particularly in sales, as part of the company’s latest move to trim its workforce amid heavy spending on AI. From a report:
The cuts are expected to be announced early next month [non-paywalled source], following the end of Microsoft’s fiscal year, according to people familiar with the matter. The reductions won’t exclusively affect sales teams, and the timing could still change, said the people, who requested anonymity to discuss a private matter. The terminations would follow a previous round of layoffs in May that hit 6,000 people and fell hardest on product and engineering positions, largely sparing customer-facing roles like sales and marketing.”
“Intel Foundry layoffs could impact ‘more than 10,000’ factory workers — one fifth of employees affected by ‘enormous cutback'”
But in good news for a very few, “OpenAI CEO Sam Altman accused Meta of attempting to poach his developers with $100 million sign-on bonuses and higher compensation packages as the social media giant races to catch up in AI race. Altman said Meta, which has a $1.8 trillion market capitalization, began making the offers to his team members after falling behind in AI efforts.”
I think that was $100 million for the whole team. But still, desperate thrashing everywhere.
Let JMG out of the country for two weeks and all heck breaks out.
One thing is clear though (it was clear enough before) both parties in Congress have decided to run the financial car over the cliff. Spending will not be cut, taxes will not be raised.
That leads to this item setting the stage for a “new dollar.” Bipartisan, you note.
“The U.S. Senate has approved the GENIUS Act with a 68-30 final vote that “saw a huge surge of Democrats joining their Republican counterparts,” reports CoinDesk. What the bill sets out to do is create the first federal regulatory framework for U.S. stablecoins, requiring issuers to maintain full 1:1 reserves in cash or Treasuries, adhere to regular audits and anti-money laundering rules, and gain regulatory approval — all while allowing foreign stablecoin access under strict oversight rules.”
Kyle, thank you for your recommendation of ‘The Trickster and the Paranormal’. The themes seem very relevant to those of a book I’m currently writing myself, and I’ll certainly be buying a copy to read, consider and cite!
JMG – I hope you will further describe the rising entrepreneurial class at some point. I agree that the PMC/laptop class is in the process of crashing and burning, but I do not see what comes next, nor do I understand what the successor elite’s resource base will be or how they will reproduce their position within any durable system of class relations.
There is no huge natural resource base to exploit like the robber barons. I don’t think AI or mega-computing will ever be more of a resource base than it is now. Most of the folks who currently claim to be entrepreneurs seem to be just the less principled members of the laptop class. On the rare occasions when they are not simply scamming they occupy fairly short-term disintermediation-reintermediation economic niches. I don’t see how this turns into a social order that lasts until 2100, even if we all expect a lot less from society.
As I read about the stresses caused by upward mobility and the way they can eventuate in “Karen” behavior, well, first of all, I’m thinking about Impostor Syndrome, an anxiety disorder that shows up as feelings of unworthyness for ones position despite any and all evidence to the contrary, which was first described in the psychological literature in the late 1970s and has been almost entirely a feminine phenomenon. Secondly, I’m thinking of the collective experience of the generation that grew up in poverty during the Great Depression, were young adults during WWII, and then in the post-war period (usually abbreviated as “the Fifties”) experienced a degree of mass affluence unprecedented in history. My mother was one of those. Her “Karenish” quality was constantly worrying about people trying to cheat her, from cashiers in stores to her lawyer when she got entangled in a lawsuit I don’t remember the details of. More generally, I can’t help wondering whether mass Impostor Syndrome had something to do with the obsessive conformism of that time, and the waves of hysteria over harmless things. (Comic books! Marijuana! Rock and roll music!) Quite a contrast with the ethos of the previous high water mark of mass prosperity, the 1920s.
On another topic, I just searched for the tag “4am club” on Tumblr. It seems to be used exclusively by insomniacs. No mention of this alternate timeline thing.
Edward, the only thing that props up the income and status of the medical industry right now are legal enactments that protect their monopoly on health care. Those are low-hanging fruit to any politician who wants to win favor from the masses; meanwhile the masses themselves are turning increasingly to alternative health care, which is less likely to bankrupt them or give them fatal side effects. As for Kennedy, he’s trying to prune the system of its more obvious abuses so that some form of it can survive; the people who insist he’s solely destructive want to maintain the current grift unchanged, and that simply guarantees worse blowback later on.
DropBear, ding! We have a winner. Yes, exactly.
Chris, I managed to fail at status through a talent for autism. It really does help. 😉 Not that I mind!
Ambrose, good. Since success is therefore contextual, and depends entirely on the fine details of how each person applies some unique mix of skills and talents, the biological dimension has little relevance, since the biological traits that count as successful in one context count as failure in another. That’s why social forces, not biological ones, determine the assignment of status.
Jennifer, that makes perfect sense — especially in DC, where everybody’s status varies moment by moment depending on how enthusiastically they pander to which political pressure group.
Rhydlyd, yeah, that’s sad.
Siliconguy, yep. As federal regulations get pruned, and businesses no longer need to hire to many people to handle compliance with endlessly proliferating edicts from DC, expect that to shift into overdrive.
Albrt, I recommend reading some good histories of societies in decline to get an example of how elites handle periods like this.
Joan, both of those are excellent points. Thank you!
Humans may be more complicated, unless some chimps are assigned high status in one troop and low in another. Keyboard class treat trump like a wretch baring fangs. Others treat him with respect. I suspect many live similarly – assigned high status in one walk of life and like dirt in another. and may be why some people wig out under the strain as happens so often in the usa.?
I saw a cuban band recently in the usa. The lineup was multinational so when the bandleader introduced the members of the band he did so by instrument and nationality ‘on drums, from caracas venezuela, Est-‘ etc. There were also reps of cuba, el salvador, mexico. I did not catch any names because after the country was named followed thunderous applause and yells – except for the two americans from alaska and idaho. Crowd was silent for those. It was a priveledged class anglo saxophone audience fwiw.
Dear JMG:
At the risk of being a bit off topic:
I can remember a seminar in college (late 1970s), pointing out that we were in an interglacial period. The presenter made a comment about buying beachfront property 300 miles out!
On the other hand, there are terrace deposits in the Delaware River valley that were deposited when river levels were higher than present (during the ice ages). But earth has to be “saved”?
It is amazing how thin the layer of rationality is; and I’m just as guilty as anyone!
Cugel
“Sunshine Go Away Today” by Johnathan Edwards sad, especially since a look-what-I-found moment with our dad’s “Peace is Patriotic” button was a red cape for her and a rodeo clown moment for me.
It’s like she’s forgotten who she is.
Hmmm. I haven’t commented for a long time, but I still read just about every one of your posts, JMG. Sorry to have missed your visit to the UK, but I left Clas Myrddin a couple of months ago because reasons…
This post seems very relevant to me, as the last decade and a half of my life have been about “collapsing before the rush” – and boy, did that involve a lot of status panic!
I had the fortune, or misfortune (I could interpret it either way), to have had an upbringing that taught me to aspire to membership of what became the laptop class and provided me with the education and skills to do it. It also provided me with a worldview, set of behaviours and expectations that made it impossible for me to ever fit in or thrive in that environment. It took me far too long, and much distress, to work that out.
Then I collapsed, in a manner much like you describe in this post – though thanks to your writings, I was able to do it consciously, and to shrug off the loss of status. To quote Anthony Hamilton’s lyrics:
I am looking for freedom
Looking for freedom
And to find it cost me everything I have
I’d hoped I’d find it via the Green Wizardry route, as I know a number of your readers in the UK are doing. Events turned out otherwise and, in any case, it seems that words are my strength so that’s where I need to concentrate my efforts.
But, for the moment, I’m scraping a living in a developing country in the tropics, the kind of down-on-his-luck westerner easily recognisable from the novels of Graham Greene, Somerset Maugham or Joseph Conrad. That’s a thought that gives me much wry amusement, not that I ever thought it’s where I would end up.
There’s no status here for being a white foreigner – but it does give insulation from the inter-gang conflicts. Gang violence is very much a thing here, though not with firearms. Greet the groups of young men in the shadows cheerfully, meeting their stares as an equal and a man equally deserving of respect. Shake hands with the old men. Make a fuss of the little kids. As long as they like you, their mothers and female kin will welcome you, and as long as the womenfolk like you, you have a certain protection. Buy from the local shops but don’t show too much money in your wallet.
Again, not the kind of rules I ever expected to have to live by but here we are – and the other side of it is that this is a strong community that looks out for those who belong. As you’ve often written, it’s a way of life that’s coming soon to many of the laptop class, and perhaps in not as wholesome a manner.
So what am I doing? Life has taught me that the world is full of rivers of money: you just need to tap into one of them. So I’m lifting kettlebells and practising qigong, studying language and its applications, studying divination and ceremonial magic… There are people who make very good livings doing druid-related things, and I aim to become one of them. With vision and the will, resources can always be found.
Long life and good health to you, JMG, and thanks for the work you’ve put out over the years that’s been of concrete help to many of your readers, myself included.
Michael Martin #79 says: I think the best way to cope with “status panic” is the old Medieval adage “Memento Mori” (“Remember your Death”). The Orthodox funeral service has some moving hymnography around this…
The Roman Catholic Ash Wednesday service used to have an effective “Memento Mori” where the priest put ashes on each person’s forehead in the shape of a cross and said “Dust you are, and unto dust you shall return.” I say “used to” because the last time I went to an Ash Wednesday service, in the 1990s, the priest instead said “Turn from sin and believe in the Gospel” (thus replacing a powerful “Memento Mori” with a banal sermon).
Traditionally, people saved the palms they got the previous year on Palm Sunday (which celebrates Christ’s triumphant entry into Jerusalem), and on Ash Wednesday the following year, they burned the palms while saying “Sic transit gloria mundi” (thus passes the glory of the world). Those ashes were then placed on their foreheads. No one does that anymore, but I think rituals like that could help people better manage “status panic.”
JMG, I don’t fully understand the idea that the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by by society, not by biology. Does that mean that if someone rises to a high position in the social hierarchy because they are incredibly good looking and charismatic that position is only achieved because society decides that set of characteristics is at that moment in time desirable and worthy of status? And at some other place and time those same characteristics would land them behind the counter at McDonalds?
Or say someone who was gifted biologicaly with very high intelligence. Lets use your favorite scientist Carl Sagan as an example. Despite his position on enchantment he was undoubtedly an extremely intelligent person ( Issac Asimov said Carl was the only person he knew that was smarter than him). This intelligence combined with a talent for self promotion saw him rise to a high position in the social hierarchy in the 70’s and 80’s. But if I understand the premise that only happened because that set of traits was valued by the social hierarchy at that point in time. So in Puritan New England his status might have been extremely different?
Do I have the right idea?
@Ambrose: “Yes, there have been matriarchal societies…”
It’s been some decades since I formally studied the topic, but I don’t believe anthropologists have ever documented a matriarchal society in the sense that men were enjoined to obey their wives in the way that Old World patriarchal agrarian societies from Portugal to Korea traditionally enjoined women to obey their husbands. You may be thinking of matrilineal societies, in which family lines are reckoned mother-to-daughter rather than father-to-son. What I remember about those is that, typically, a considerable amount of the responsibilities and privileges given to husbands in our society are, in matrilineal societies, given to a woman’s brothers. In those societies, when people speak of a man’s kids (in the sense of the kids who are under his authority, who will take care of him in his old age and inherit from him when he dies, whose behavior will cause him pride or shame) they mean his sisters’ kids, not his wife’s kids. Many of these societies, from the Pagan Irish to the Haudenosaunee to the Ashanti, have been known for their ferocity in battle. (The name Ashanti literally derives from a local word meaning “warlike”.) As for their “appear[ing] broadly uncompetitive”, that has less to do with any kind of hormonal characteristics than with a short list of patriarchal societies on the Atlantic Seaboard of Europe lucking onto a combination of technological advantages and contagious diseases that empowered them to conquer huge areas of the world. There is no evidence that patrilineal cultures such as the Malays, the Zulu and the Comanche fared any better under the forces of conquest than their matrilineal contemporaries.
Hi everyone, before I get to the normal prayer list announcement below, I’d like to announce that I just made some rather drastic trims of the prayer list, removing anything older than 3 months (as per the prayer list rules) except for special cases where there was a special arrangement for length made at the time of the request. I’m going to leave a list of entries that I trimmed in a comment under this one; to anyone who wants their prayer re-upped, I welcome it.
___________________
At this link is the full list of all of the requests for prayer that have recently appeared at ecosophia.net and ecosophia.dreamwidth.org, as well as in the comments of the prayer list posts. Please feel free to add any or all of the requests to your own prayers.
If I missed anybody, or if you would like to add a prayer request for yourself or anyone who has given you consent (or for whom a relevant person holds power of consent) to the list, please feel free to leave a comment below and/or in the comments at the current prayer list post.
* * *
This week I would like to bring special attention to the following prayer requests.
May Kevin’s sister Cynthia be cured of the hallucinations and delusions that have afflicted her, and freed from emotional distress. May she be safely healed of the physical condition that has provoked her emotions; and may she be healed of the spiritual condition that brings her to be so unsettled by it. May she come to feel calm and secure in her physical body, regardless of its level of health.
May Pierre and Julie conceive a healthy baby together. May the conception, pregnancy, birth, and recovery all be healthy and smooth for baby and for Julie.
May Viktoria have a safe and healthy pregnancy, and may the baby be born safe, healthy and blessed.
May SLClaire’s honorary daughter Beth, who is undergoing dialysis for kidney disease, be blessed, and may her kidneys be restored to full functioning.
May 1Wanderer’s partner Cathy, who has bravely fought against cancer to the stage of remission, now be relieved of the unpleasant and painful side-effects from the follow-up hormonal treatment, together with the stress that this imposes on both parties; may she quickly be able to resume a normal life, and the cancer not return.
May Kallianeira’s partner Patrick, who passed away on May 7th, be blessed and aided in his soul’s onward journey. And may Kallianeira be soothed and strengthened to successfully cope in the face of this sudden loss.
May Viktoria have a safe and healthy pregnancy, and may the baby be born safe, healthy and blessed. May Marko have the strength, wisdom and balance to face the challenges set before him. (picture)
May Linda from the Quest Bookshop of the Theosophical (Society, who has developed a turbo cancer, be blessed and have a speedy and full recovery from cancer.
May Corey Benton, whose throat tumor has grown around an artery and won’t be treated surgically, and who is now able to be at home from the hospital, be healed of throat cancer.
(Healing work is also welcome. Note: Healing Hands should be fine, but if offering energy work which could potentially conflict with another, please first leave a note in comments or write to randomactsofkarmasc to double check that it’s safe)
May David Spangler (the esoteric teacher), who has been responding well to chemotherapy for his bladder cancer, be blessed, healed, and filled with positive energy such that he makes a full recovery.
May Giulia (Julia) in the Eastern suburbs of Cleveland Ohio be quickly healed of recurring seizures and paralysis of her left side and other neurological problems associated with a cyst on the right side of her brain and with surgery and drugs to treat it, if providence would have it, and if not, may her soul move on from this world and find peace with a minimum of further suffering for her and her family and friends.
May Liz and her baby be blessed and healthy during pregnancy, and may her husband Jay (sdi) have the grace and good humor to support his family even through times of stress and ill health.
May Debra Roberts, who has just been diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer, be blessed and healed to the extent that providence allows. Healing work is also welcome.
May Jack H’s father John, whose aortic dissection is considered inoperable and likely fatal by his current doctors, be healed, and make a physical recovery to the full extent that providence allows, and be able to enjoy more time together with his loved ones.
May Frank R. Hartman, who lost his house in the Altadena fire, and all who have been affected by the larger conflagration be blessed and healed.
May Open Space’s friend’s mother
Judith be blessed and healed for a complete recovery from cancer.
* * *
Guidelines for how long prayer requests stay on the list, how to word requests, how to be added to the weekly email list, how to improve the chances of your prayer being answered, and several other common questions and issues, are to be found at the Ecosophia Prayer List FAQ.
If there are any among you who might wish to join me in a bit of astrological timing, I pray each week for the health of all those with health problems on the list on the astrological hour of the Sun on Sundays, bearing in mind the Sun’s rulerships of heart, brain, and vital energies. If this appeals to you, I invite you to join me.
The following prayers have just been excised en-masse from the prayer list as I don’t believe I’ve received any updates on them within the past three months. If you’d like yours back up, just say the word. Updates on how you are going are also welcome.
________________
•May Other Dave’s father Michael Orwig, who passed away on 2/24, make his transition to his soul’s next destination with comfort and grace; may his wife Allyn and the rest of his family be blessed and supported in this difficult time. (2/27)
•May Bill Rice (Will1000) in southern California continue to be blessed and healed of his back injury, and may he quickly recover full health and movement. (2/27)
•May Jim G. in Ohio, who is struggling with atrial fibrillation, be blessed and healed to the extent that providence allows. (2/19)
•May Peter Evans in California, whose colon cancer has been responding well to treatment, be completely healed with ease, and make a rapid and total recovery. (2/19)
•May Debra Roberts, who has just been diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer, be blessed and healed to the extent that providence allows. Healing work is also welcome. (2/17)
•May Karen, who has now come home from hospital and her bout with RSV, quickly recover and be restored to full health. (2/13)
•May Jack H’s father John, whose aortic dissection is considered inoperable and likely fatal by his current doctors, be healed, and make a physical recovery to the full extent that providence allows, and be able to enjoy more time together with his loved ones. (2/10)
•May Goats and Roses’ son A, who had a serious concussion weeks ago and is still suffering from the effects, regain normal healthy brain function, and rebuild his physical strength back to normal, and regain his zest for life. And may Goats and Roses be granted strength and effectiveness in finding solutions to the medical and caregiving matters that need to be addressed, and the grief and strain of the situation. (2/10)
•May NeptunesDolphins’s son succeed in receiving SSI/DI benefits, and get the help, legal or otherwise, to attain it. May he be blessed and receive the help he needs to keep good spiritual and mental health. (1/25)
•May NeptunesDolphins’s husband’s feet remain healthy; may the open wound on his foot heal quickly, and may the situation resolve quickly without any complication.
•May Matt, who is currently struggling with MS related fatigue, be blessed and healed such that he returns to full energy; and may he be enlightened as to the best way to manage his own situation to best bring about this healing. (1/23)
•May Brother Kornhoer’s son’s sleep apnea and associated kidney issues be resolved in a way that benefits all involved, as soon as possible. (1/23)
•May Brother Kornhoer’s daughter, who is struggling with depression, be blessed and strengthened with mental clarity and peace, and may her therapy be effective. (1/23)
•May Sub’s Wife’s major surgery in early January have gone smoothly and successfully, and may she recover with ease back to full health. (1/11)
•May David/Trubrujah’s 5 year old nephew Jayce, who is back home after chemotherapy for his leukemia, be healed quickly and fully, and may he, and mother Amanda, and their family find be aided with physical, mental, and emotional strength while they deal with this new life altering situation. (update1/11)
•May Mindwinds’s dad Clem, who in the midst of a struggle back to normal after a head injury has been told he shows signs of congestive heart failure, be blessed, healed, and encouraged. (1/7)
•May Christian’s cervical spine surgery on 1/14 have been successful, and may he heal completely and with speed; and may the bad feelings and headaches plaguing him be lifted. (1/7)
•May FJay and her newborn baby be blessed, and may her postpartum period be restful and full of love and support. May her older child feel surrounded by her love as he adapts to life as a big brother and may her marriage be strengthened during this time. (12/24/2024)
•May Jon’s neighbor Eric overcome his difficulties with alcohol and may his cirrhotic liver be healed. (12/13/2024)
•May Peter Van Erp’s friend Kate Bowden’s husband Russ Hobson and his family be enveloped with love as he follows his path forward with the glioblastoma (brain cancer) which has afflicted him. (12/11/2024)
•May Kyle’s friend Amanda, who though in her early thirties just passed away from brain cancer, make her transition through the afterlife process with grace and peace. (12/11/2024)
•May baby Gigi, continue to gain weight and strength, and continue to heal from a possible medication overdose which her mother Elena received during pregnancy, and may Elena be blessed and healed from the continuing random tremors which ensued; may Gigi’s big brother Francis continue to be in excellent health and be blessed. (12/6/2024)
•May Scotlyn’s friend Fiona, who has been in hospital since early October with what is a diagnosis of ovarian cancer, be blessed and healed, and encouraged in ways that help her to maintain a positive mental and spiritual outlook. (11/25/2024)
•May all living things who have suffered as a consequence of Hurricanes Helene and Milton be blessed, comforted, and healed. (10/15/2024)
•May Falling Tree Woman’s son’s girlfriend’s mother Bridget in Devon UK, who is now in a rehab facility following a life-threatening fall from a horse some months ago, be blessed and healed and returned to full health. (9/30/2024)
•May K from Canada be blessed and supported in their spiritual development, and in making advancements in their life, including finding a pleasant place to live. (2/19)
•May Dominique be filled with hope to get our of her negative mental and physical rut for herself and for her family and may she be filled with love and joy and get on with life and get the willpower to change. (2/14)
•May Lp9’s hometown, East Palestine, Ohio, be protected and blessed in the safety and welfare of their people, animals and all living beings in and around East Palestine; may the natural environment there improve to the benefit of all. The reasonable possibility exists that this is an environmental disaster on par with the worst America has ever seen. (Lp9 gives updates here, here, here, here, and most recently, here.) (9/2/2024)
Status panic explains so much, JMG. An experience I had in Baja California seems like the perfect analogy for the present geopolitical situation. A date palm orchard occupied an entire city block in the middle of town. At night, all the turkey vultures flew in from the surrounding desert to roost there. As a walking passerby, you observed the nightly ritual of large, loud birds jockeying for position. The ground below was thick with vulture excretions, so you can see what the status objective was.
Polybius (and later, Spengler) describe the life cycle of civilizations. We seem to be at the point of losing the Republic in favor of the Dictatorship. Is there any way to interrupt the cycle of Polybius? The US Founding Fathers provided the option of a Constitutional Convention. I wonder if the Constitutional Convention was designed to be a way out of the Dictatorship– Will we have one? Would it help? Could be a mechanism for the peaceful breakup of the US into a number of smaller, more nimble nations.
JMG,
I’ve been struggling to explain why the frontier as a concept has such an appeal to me and American culture generally and this essay made everything snap into place. It’s a dislike of status games! If you can pack up and “head west” to live on you and your family’s terms you’re not living under the burden of the status games, of the endless false flattery and fear that is endured to play. Instead you’re at the mercy of much larger, far less petty forces.
Now (as you’ve no doubt surmised from my comments over the years) I’m on the autism spectrum and I freely grant that makes me have an innate dislike of social status games but I think to varying degrees many people have a dislike of climbing the ladder and would like a more independent existence.
Cheers,
JZ
To further your point, the behaviour you describe as characteristic of some modern American middle-class women and the noveau riche men of a certain era is one I associate overwhelmingly with a certain type of successful late Soviet men (that is to say, people who became adults in the last few decades of the USSR; many of them are around and unchanged today, but the type is also well-documented in late-Soviet literature and film). I haven’t checked their class backgrounds, but I suspect many of them will have been among the beneficiaries of Soviet social mobility. It goes hand in hand with a sense of meritocratic egalitarianism (everyone is equal by nature and by law, so if I have done better than others, it was solely through earned merit; and if, say, a waiter at a restaurant fails to measure up to my cultivated standards, it is the waiter’s personal failure that must be rectified, perhaps with the help of a sharp, socially responsible lecture). I suppose I should be thankful my own family got into the intelligentsiya some four or five generations ago; it has its own problems, but not that one.
As for Nicholas II, from what I’ve read, he only agreed to abdicate after his generals and ministers persuaded him that, no, really, the Cossacks and the Old Believers were not going to immediately start a civil war to restore him to power. Conversely, it looked like a part of his own military was prepared to fight to throw him out. If anything it was one of the better things about him that this argument – that remaining in power was not preventing but ensuring a fratricidal war – eventually convinced him to abdicate. On the other hand, it also testifies to the depth of his delusion. Old Believers may have liked him somewhat more than they did most previous Romanovs, but practically no one was prepared to fight to keep him.
OK, then, I’m going to be a Karen today, even though I’m a bloke. Once more, you have placed a whole paragraph within parentheses, JMG. This is highly unorthodox. A style crime, in fact. You once told me that this was to signal an aside. But it isn’t an aside. It’s a follow-on of your thoughts about the “transitional state” that you had already mentioned. So you trapped four sentences within parentheses. Cruel and unusual treatment, I say. You deliberately downgraded those sentences. Yet you’re far too talented a writer to need to use parentheses to signal an aside anyway. When I see a paragraph in parentheses, my mind just skims across it. Your paragraph would have lost nothing and would only have gained by losing the parentheses.
I’m an Englishman. I live in England and grew up there. English is my language, and you’re using it. My language, my rules. If I catch you placing any more paragraphs within parentheses, I’ll apply a personal tariff to your use of my language. You’ll need to send me a $150 bill for every breach. Just how long do you think you’d be able to afford your breakfast of coffee and sasquatch burger if you had to pay that? And don’t try to wriggle out of it. Because if you do, as you know, old technology is best, and we English have a squadron of 20,000 Spitfires just waiting to obliterate every city in the USA. You have been warned. Just think of that when you plan to carry out your revenge by placing every paragraph but one of your next post within parentheses.
Re your reply to Albert
Can you recommend any books?
I also can’t see the shape of what’s to come next.
Apologies JMG – typo idiocy corrected:
JMG #72
“a male Karen is a Kenneth. I’m not sure as to the exact origins, but iirc it’s the latest in a long series of African-American pejoratives for privileged white women — “Miss Ann” was the one used before 1865, for example. As for usage, no, “b***h” has a much broader range of connotations and applications, as do terms for men such as “jerk” and “***hole.” “Karen” is much more specific. You don’t have to be privileged and blustering to be a puppy’s momma!”
Frank #83
“The male equivalent of Karen is Jared.”
Ambrose #91
“the leading theories are that it refers either to the Karen people of Burma, whose Christian converts formed a sort of compradore class during British colonial rule; or to former Armenian prime minister Karen Karapetyan (who is a man; served 2016-2018), for his role in the 2011 protests.”
Ambrose’s explanation reminds me of a ‘true story’ about the origin of Glastonbury as a town name – originally named after a talented French hatmaker called Gaston who moved to the area because of the sheep farming and specialised in making berets.
Anti-French feeling led to the town adopting it’s current name in the 19th century during the 23 year war that culminated in the Battle of Waterloo in 1815.
Thank you all – Perhaps it is an American thing. Have never seen the term applied to men but have seen Karen memes. Probably best that I put the matter out of mind and return to my midden.
PS JMG: ‘Sowa’s Ark – An Enchanted Bestiary’ ISBN-10: 0811814157
JMG,
It could be that a deeper fear sitting under “class panic” is “skills panic” i.e. the fear of having mastered a set of skills that are no longer as monetizeable as they once were. And sitting under that is a life/leisure panic (whatever the term should be for the absence of toil) because less monetization normally means more hours on the job.
On a positive note, at least “some” of the “laptop class” will enter the next skills cycle with knees, rotator cuffs, and spine in tact. Yes, they will have unique health issues from being sedentary but… at least they aren’t starting with two knee surgeries.
I’d say that not the biggest chunk but a big chunk of what constitutes “work” at a megacorp is meaningless busywork. And yes, at some point management will figure out that robots can dig digital holes and fill them in adequately and cheaper than hoomans. See, look at all the savings we’ve unlocked! One might ask whether digging those holes in the first place was a good idea but let’s not make suggestions to people who never listen.
But like with outsaucing, they’ll then get the idea they can do that to *all* their worker bees and then they’ll run into real trouble. But due to sheer inertia, it’ll take a few years before the consequences come. My advice would be if you were a player in this football game, that when you run out of bounds, don’t stop running, just leave the stadium and keep going.
>As I read about the stresses caused by upward mobility and the way they can eventuate in “Karen” behavior, well, first of all, I’m thinking about Impostor Syndrome, an anxiety disorder that shows up as feelings of unworthyness for ones position despite any and all evidence to the contrary
Have you ever watched the British comedy Keeping Up Appearances? In many ways, the Hyacinth character was the early prototype for the later Karen. The writing on those old British shows was top notch, they really cared about their jobs back then.
“Most of the time, the primate level takes the lead, and the rational mind simply rationalizes the results,…”
Iain McGilchrist would probably state that the left hemisphere can do both of these steps on its own, and not just rationalise them, but denounce any opposition to it as meddling by that other – and, ironically, in its view, more “primate-like” – hemisphere.
About No Kings Day, etc and the elites
We had a group of aging hippies block two intersections near me. They were thrusting signs into cars at the stoplights. Not a person younger than 50 was present. All the people I know who participated are women, older than 50, or gay men older than 50.
What I found out was that it is the elites who are funding the No Kings Day. One of the heirs to Walmart put out a full-page ad in the NYT for people to revolt. Various conservative tv stations (America’s Real Voice and The First) have investigated the funding, reporting that it is a mix of NGOs and various elite types. The NGOs according to these conservative folks are angry that Trump turned off the money faucet.
In other words, it is about keeping one’s social status and the fear of being erased.
Since my brain injury, I have been studying paleontology as a lay person. One thing that pops out as to why some species survive like sharks is that they adapt. Trilobites, the longest span of existing of any species, died out as they specialized more and more until the Permian Extinction did them in. It is not the survival of the fittest but the most adaptable. In today’s society, the elites are not adapting but splinting deeper into specialization. They have reached the end of the road and will die off.
I learned that when my former self was extinguished, and I had to adapt to a new world after the TBI. I keep adapting since the brain keeps changing.
I am sorry about your blogger friend. After the election, I lost friends to TDS. Even now, that is all they talk about. It is a virus of the mind. Mark Cuban, the entrepreneur, left Blue Sky, the liberal answer to Musk’s X, after he got bored with the TDS rants. He said that no one talks about anything but that. He went back to X since at least there, they have actual conversations about a multitude of subjects.
In the case of my friends and their TDS, they were of the Progressive class, Pagan, female, over 50, and dislike men. Most of them have a peculiar hatred of Trump the man as he must remind them of all those men that did them wrong. (They were the ones who had the 4 am shock in 2016 of H. Clinton losing.)
Meanwhile, the Neo-Pagan seen is TDS also. With wacky ideas of concentration camps, death squads, etc.
I know this comment may be a bit ahead of schedule but when you start to write more about the real effects of climate change more, I thought you might find these charts useful:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Biomes-simulated-with-the-FOAM-LPJ-model-during-the-Mesozoic-and-angiosperm_fig1_265692313
This one shows what biomes existed during the Mesozoic Era. It is noteworthy that in the last couple of charts , which are from the “Cretaceous hothouse” period, deserts were almost completely absent! It really contrasts with the common propaganda image that Global Warming will make the Earth into a barren wasteland or even its sister planet Venus!
On the other hand, there have been periods in Earth’s history where it has been relatively barren (after the evolution of multicellular lifeforms like plants and trees).
https://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc.html
It is during Ice Ages (Glacial Maximums to use the more scientific term) not greenhouse periods where the Earth becomes relatively arid and barren! In the hothouse periods, at least after the evolution of multicellular lifeforms, Earth has looked more like Dagobah from the Star Wars series!
Hi JMG,
Welcome back,
I would like to express my gratitude for your book suggestions awhile ago:
– The Great Depression (Hard Times by S. Terkel)
– The Collapse of the Roman Empire (The Fall of the Roman Empire – A Reappraisal by M. Grant)
Following your answer to Mister N, would you be able to clarify how the habit of beating ourselves up is part of the mechanism which the system enforce obedience ?
I find it highly interesting and relevant.
Is there any books which one can learn more about this subject?
Thank you,
I recall in the 1970s endless propaganda in the news saying that Americans should lower their expectations. I don’t know if anyone else recalls that. In light of the current essay I have two questions:
1) Was the lowering of expectations supposed to be just for those who did productive work and not office work (i.e. what we would now call the laptop class)
2) Was the propaganda centrally organized or just a natural outgrowth of the views of one class who thought the other class had things too good? (Or something else.)
Jstn, even among chimps, status in one band doesn’t transfer to status in others. Among humans, yes, it’s more complex, because status among us is assigned by society, not by biology, but the emotional reactions are the same.
Cugel, I know — it took me a lot of practice to get used to the simple fact that nothing I can do or leave undone will ever matter in the least to the planet. (To me, sure; to those people and other living things with whom I interact, sure; but earth, to say nothing of the rest of the universe, doesn’t care that I’m here and won’t notice me when I’m gone.)
Rhydlyd, ouch. Yeah, that sucks.
Bogatyr, glad to hear that you’ve landed on your feet. For what it’s worth, I can attest that it’s quite possible to make a decent living doing magic these days, and I wish you the highest success at that ancient and viable profession.
Clay, consider the face of the woman below:
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That’s Nell Gwyn, who was considered the most gorgeous woman in England in the days of Charles II (who took her as one of his mistresses). Nowadays she’d be considered ugly, and fat. As for Sagan, intelligence is not a single quality, it’s a grab-bag of different skills — for example, I have a high IQ but I’m not very good at numbers, where other high-IQ people are much better at numbers than words. In Puritan New England, where mathematics weren’t considered important, he’d probably have ended up becoming an astrologer (that term and “mathematician” were interchangeable in those days) and eked out a living on the fringes of society.
Quin, thank you for this as always.
Seaweedy, a fine metaphor!
Emmanuel, remember that the collapse of democracy comes about because democracy becomes a plutocratic, dysfunctional mess, and putting power in the hands of one person brings measurable improvements to most people in the society. That’s the thing about anacyclosis: each stage collapses into the next because of its own failures.
John, exactly! The frontier, back when we had one, was the always-available escape hatch from status games. Out west, it didn’t matter who your parents were or what class you came from — so long as you could work hard and defend yourself, you were part of the rough egalitarianism of the frontier.
Daniil, thank you for this! Those are both excellent examples — and it does speak very well of Nicholas II that he made the choice he did.
(Batstrel, you’re entitled to your opinion, and indeed welcome to it. Fortunately for me, 250 years ago we Americans expressed our feelings about arbitrary rules coming from your stuffy old island in what I think is still a somewhat memorable manner, and we haven’t changed our minds, you know!)
Sam, hmm. I need to come up with a reading list on declining civilizations, don’t I? I’ll see what I can come up with.
Earthworm, so noted! Thanks for the book reference.
GlassHammer, that’s certainly an important factor in it.
Other Owen, I expect the current AI fad to reduce quite a few major corporations to complete dysfunction and potential collapse in the years ahead. Those who have genuine administrative skills — as opposed to a background in useless makework — may want to go to ground for a decade, and then look for jobs in the post-AI world.
Michaelz, one of the reasons I don’t take the two-hemispheres theory seriously is that it uses so simple and evolutionarily incoherent a model of the brain. Au contraire, if you take each layer of the brain as an evolutionary accretion to the ones below it, and note when certain kinds of behavior show up in vertebrates that have those layers, something much more subtle and sensible results.
Neptunesdolphins, fascinating. So it’s also partly a generational thing, with the 50+ crowd raging at the kids on their lawns. That makes a great deal of sense. As for the TDS sufferers, I sometimes think somebody ought to be merciful to them and give them the concentration camps they obsess about, and so obviously long for!
David, exactly. The more heat is present in the atmosphere, the more efficiently it evaporates water and the more evenly it distributes that water as rain over the planet. The cooler the atmosphere, the less evaporation and the more spotty the rain distribution. Thanks for the maps!
Foxhands, glad the books helped. As for teaching people to punish themselves as a way of enforcing order, every society does that. I don’t know of a book on the subject, but I’ve observed it in practice through much of my life.
Bradley, I recall that as well. It had much the same origins as the recent global warming propaganda — the rich trying to convince other people to give up their lifestyles so the rich didn’t have to.
Eric Waterloo (offlist), sorry, but I don’t permit people to post screeds trying to fan race hatreds here, irrespective of what race is being dumped on.
Hi JMG,
It is good to have you back to writing again. I appreciate your esoteric writings a great deal. I also agree with your take on industrial decline and peak oil. So it is nice to read your articles again.
Except for politics.
I must be an exception among your readers, as I dislike Trump and see no redeeming features in him at all.
Even as an agent of change, Trump is only accelerating the demise of the USA as a great nation.
I see all his policies as ill-advised and only lead to further ruin, not only of the USA but the rest of the World.
We will have to agree to disagree on Trump.
All Blessings
Felix
The laptop class in the United States is screwed if blue state governors like Gavin Newsom make good on their threat to withhold funding from the federal government. I don’t think they realize just how many of their jobs is being funded by the federal government, and the federal government can’t fund those jobs anymore if it isn’t getting money from Democratic blue states.
Pardon me, Mr. Greer. While we are on the subject of anthropogenic global warming, I was wondering what you think of the argument that it is fundamentally different (and more concerning) than natural climate change in millions of years past because of the dramatically higher rate of change. After all, when rapid climate change happened in the past, there were usually mass extinction events (and of course “rapid” for the biosphere is not nearly as rapid as the rate of change now).
Felix, consensus is overrated. By all means disagree.
Mark, er, that whole issue was settled in 1865. If Newsom tries to withhold tax revenues, he is engaged in insurrection against the United States and can be removed from office, imprisoned, and barred from ever holding public office again. Tell me that Trump wouldn’t love to do that if given an opportunity!
David, that’s off topic for this post. How about you repost it when I put up the next climate change post in early July?
I was born in 1976, so obviously I don’t remember the hubbub about global cooling. It must’ve been significant though, because it trickled down into pop culture. Jethro Tull wrote a whole song about it. “Skating Away on the Thin Ice of the New Day”
“one of my middle- or upper middle-class female readers sends me a private message demanding that I not permit the term to be used. ”
Wait, what? For real? I’m sorry, that is hilarious. Do you think you could capture one of their faces when you tell them to eat your shorts?
JMG,
If half the country withholds funds from the federal government, Trump tries to remove the governors from office, and the Democrats resist, then you end up with another civil war in the United States and possible balkanization of the United States.
@The Other Owen; “The writing on those old British shows was top notch, they really cared about their jobs back then.”
I have some very distant, tenuous fourth and fifth hand connections to the writing end of the entertainment industry, just enough to let some gossip come through. From what I pick up that way, it sounds more like they were allowed to do their jobs back then in a way that they aren’t now because of perpetual downward budgetary pressures and interference from higher-ups who are not really entertainment industry professionals, who are business and finance people that happen to have ended up in entertainment but think they know what audiences want better than the people who have spent their whole careers making what audiences want. I have read some real rants on this topic. It’s the same story as in the rest of the corporate economy: the people who actually do the work are starved for resources so that profits can be redirected to shareholders.
>That’s Nell Gwyn, who was considered the most gorgeous woman in England in the days of Charles II (who took her as one of his mistresses). Nowadays she’d be considered ugly, and fat.
That’s being a bit harsh. I think the kids would call her a “mid”. You’d have to do a poll to pin her number down, but I’d confidently say she’s somewhere south of 7. How much south, you’d need to poll. I’d put her at 5 myself. I could see some kids putting her at 4.
Wouldn’t be the first time a mid swung for the fences to try to snag one of the 8-10’s. It’s wired into female biology.
JMG – I think that a big part of status panic is driven by family concerns. As parents, we want our children to succeed, and the laptop class turns itself inside out to produce children with impressive resumes, to get into the best prep schools, and then colleges. (The pressure on junior athletes to qualify for athletic scholarships is one example.) The next stage is to want our grandchildren to succeed, and that depends on our children marrying “wisely”. Accordingly, we need to demonstrate “status” so our children can demonstrate “status”, so potential mates with “status” will consider marriage, and new money can lead to old money.
When it turns out that the whole game is foiled by the “refusal” of children to produce grandchildren, madness is in the cards. (By “refusal”, I mean facetiously that, despite there being many reasons for childlessness, as you have shared with us, to the ambitious, a failure to follow the plan can only indicate rebellion.)
earthworm @ 127, ‘Karen’ was a girl’s given name favored by upwardly aspirant middle class WASP families from about the 50s-70s. ‘Ken’ is, of course, a reference to the Ken doll, male counterpart and boyfriend to Barbie. The term ‘Barbie’ is used for very good looking, shallow and selfish, often (but not always) not very bright women. So, for example. the Trump harem–wife, daughters, his Press Secretary, etc.–are not Karens, but they very much are Barbies. The WASP females on MSNBC are presentable Karens. The Fox newsbabes are Barbies.
@batstrel (#125):
Nice tongue-in-cheek eloquence!
However, what you probably never knew (being English and all that) is that throughout the United States until about 1940 there was no other country more deeply and widely loathed than the United Kingdom. Our military’s war games were normally framed on the basis that the enemy to be defeated would, once again, be Britain.
One of our national heroes was Noah Webster, whose publications were meant to lay the basis for an American language, historically derived from, but markedly different from the British form of English.
During and after the War for Independence, many Loyalists (that is, inhabitants who had wished to remain loyal to the Crown) found it necessary to flee to Canada to save their lives. Many of the known Loyalists who did not flee were seized by mobs, tarred and feathered, and run out of town on rails — a hideous treatment with boiling tar that very often proved fatal, and usually permanently disfigured and’/or crippled the recipient. It was an absolutely brutal time for English sympathizers in the US.
This lasted until about the 1890s, when the very wealthiest families (almost exclusively on the East Coast) began to play status games with one another by trying to marry into relatively impoverished British aristocracy. Our president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was from this wealthy class, and decidedly pro-British. Thanks to Pearl Harbor, and under Churchill’s astute and subtle management, FDR managed to shift US policy, and eventually US sentiment, to favor much closer ties with the UK. And eventually a myth of “we were forever allies” took root and crowded out earlier memories of former enmity.
I have known people of my parents’ generation who felt that this new pro-English attitude was one of the greatest betrayals of the US (one among several) that FDR ever did.
Of course, as an Englishman, you shouldn’t be expected to know these fine details of US history. But anti-British sentiment was a huge force for almost two centuries here, and even now that fact is well worth emphasizing.
One related concept is that of the “egregore”, which is the virality selection process. Egregores can be usefully thought of as demons competing for mindshare.
@JMG I agree that a bunch of senior citizens going into the streets has limited effect. Jan 8th was much more effective, because violence is more effective. I’m depending on courts to realize that an authoritarian government will limit their power too, and to push back. I’m in the streets to give the judges courage.
Wer here
Well I have another claim to make it’s like more an outlook. Trump himself had many good ideas but others in his enthronage had been ploting against him. He has a lot of groups in his own party that are pushing him into policies that he doesn’t want. I know that I might speak like a broken record but the whole situation with Iran right now Trump might not want it but he might be pushed into it by his aides and pressure groups around him. Blubbering on social media doesn’t help although. When is the nearest Open Post? We will be in a quite the situation there by the time arrives (look up the commment by tom11 and his joke about USS Karen)
Neptune’s Dolphins @ 132 & 133, First, full disclosure, I voted for neither major party candidate in 2016. I was relieved, not shocked when bloodthirsty Hillary, AKA Killary, AKA Shillary, lost. “Aging Hippies” are, by definition, not persons of high status. They were, in fact, some of the first to drop out of the capitalist rat race. Some did run home to Mommy and Daddy when the trust funds ran out, but not all. It was the self-styled “Radicals”, 2nd and 3rd gen Mittel European migrants, most of them, who flocked into the welfare and other govt. beaurocracies. (And who made sure Daniel Moynihan and Richard Nixon’s Guaranteed Annual Income proposal would never get through Congress). Their faction is still with us, the rabid Ziocons of today.
Furthermore, citizens over the age of 50 are still citizens, with full rights under the Constitution and many of them do vote. Demonstrations are organized. They have to be. Someone has to arrange for the parade permits, handle the publicity, schedule the speakers and so on. Need I remind this commentariat that the RW media is a beneficiary of generous corporate and foundation subsidy?
As for Mr. Kennedy, the present cabinet officer: he is a scion of a famous American political family, and as such, gets publicity whether he wants it or not. He has enjoyed success as an environmental lawyer. His presence in the courtroom during the three well known anti-Monsanto trials undoubtedly had an influence on the juries. This has caused headaches in the boardrooms of folks who have money invested in chemicals and industrialized farming. Those folks did what capitalists do, generously fund publicity campaigns to discredit anyone who might even remotely threaten their profits. Much of the Karen class is in fact funded by banking interests, and many of their spokespersons say what they are told to say, just as do their Republican counterparts.
@albrt #109, if I may: JMG has previously suggested the new entrepreneurs will have an advantage over traditional enterprises by radically reducing the number of white-collar employees, especially managers and supervisors, if I understood him correctly. I will believe this when I see it being successfully done in companies producing concrete objects, such as fridges, and not just tweets.
JMG,
Its funny to me that the “laptop class” is embracing AI apps as a way to squeeze out just enough productivity to justify themselves because those AI apps are actually a direct assualt on them and probably the thing that will do them in.
Oh it won’t be the work being done by AI that will do it, it will be the havoc from AI hallucinations that the users will be blamed for. “I am sorry boss we relied on the AI and it made a mistake causing us to misappropriate 10% of the annual budget.” or “I am sorry boss, the AI suggested we send our designs to a third party for prototype and it didn’t know it was a subsidiary of our competitor.” A malfunctioning digital brain is just the perfect final nail to a class barely using their human brain.
Seidrwoman, next time you want to hear some Jethro Tull, play “Something’s On The Move” from Stormwatch. It’s all about global cooling. Here’s a sample verse:
“Capturing black pieces
in a glass-fronted museum
the white queen rolls
on the chessboard of the dawn
squeezing through the valleys
pausing briefly in the corries
the Ice-Mother mates
and a new age is born.”
Heck of a fine song.
Bofur, I don’t find it hilarious at all. It’s a difficult, embarrassing confrontation for both sides.
Mark, er, no. What happens is that the first governor who tries it gets scooped from his mansion by Special Ops forces — insurrection means that the military can be used on US territory — and taken in manacles via helicopter to an Army base in a solidly red state. Trump is then legally authorized to appoint a military governor, who can use Federal troops and lethal force to maintain order, and suspend habeas corpus as permitted by the Constitution. As happened in the 1860s, that continues until the insurrection is officially declared over, possibly years down the road. Since states no longer have their own armed forces — the state militias were absorbed into the National Guard long ago, and are under Federal control — and laws were passed after 1865 permitting decisive action to prevent what happened in 1860 from recurring, and since the vast majority of gun-owning Americans don’t support the Democrats and neither do the vast majority of police officers and military personnel, any attempt at civil war would be over very quickly.
Other Owen, “mid” or not, she certainly doesn’t count as a stellar beauty now — but she did then. Thus my point.
Lathechuck, hmm! Yes, that also makes sense.
Nick, yes, that’s another way to look at it.
Tom, so noted. As I said, if you think that’s your proper place, by all means.
Wer, next week is the next open post.
GlassHammer, you may well be right.
@clay #117: Precious few times and places have valued mathematical intelligence by conferring high status. When you call Carl Sagan charismatic, I assume you mean that many people liked to watch him talk. There were times when the kind of charisma that mattered was if people were willing to die for you. Did Sagan have that?
As another counter-example, consider Franz von Papen, who was chancellor of Germany for a few months in 1932, and then again vice-chancellor under Hitler. The constitutional power to select the chancellor lay with the half-senile president von Hindenburg, who liked von Papen, first because he was from an old aristocratic family, and second because he embodied the aristocratic ideal of appearance, namely by his choice of clothes and by riding horsescomme il faut. Von Papen’s intelligence was the subject of jokes that compared his head unfavorably with his hat.
I think this is what JMG means: each society, at each moment in time, decides the characteristics to be rewarded with high status, and those can vary wildly.
@Glasshammer #128, if I may: Fear of status loss is a universal not only among humans, but even many other species. “Skills panic” only makes sense in those human societies that give higher status for certain skills. It would never occur to Jane Austen’s protagonists to worry about their skill set, while they never stop worrying about their status.
Well, it seems that a lot of Trump’s MAGA supporters, as well as the National Security Council, are jerking his chain on Israel/GAZA:
Trump Has Reportedly Approved Iran Attack Plans But Is Withholding Final Order
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/trump-says-iran-reached-out-its-very-late-be-talking
White House Says Trump To Decide On Attacking Iran ‘Within Next 2 Weeks’
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/missile-causes-extensive-damage-israeli-hospital-idf-bombs-inactive-iranian-heavy
“Господу помолимся (Let us pray to the Lord)!”
Let me join the other welcoming you back and hoping you enjoyed your trip!
Something I read recently that has had be thinking, and I think it’s related to the status panic: after Trump’s first term, when the dire prophecies of his haters didn’t happened and we didn’t end up in a dystopian dictatorship, TDS sufferers didn’t do what you’d expect and claim victory for stopping him. They just pretended those things had happened anyway, and that things done for clearly spelled-out and plausible reasons (e.g. curbing illegal immigration, making it harder to commit election fraud, stopping what they view as the murder of unborn children) were obviously really about taking away rights from women and people of color and advancing fascism.
This doesn’t even get into the outright hoaxes that the left still believe about Trump.
Is this a normal part of a status panic, or did something go particularly screwy this time? I’ve seen people project their Orwellian fantasies on the other party, but I’ve never seen the like of this complete disconnect from reality.
Status panic is a great phrase. I don’t want to sound too much like Jordan Peterson, but this stuff hits parts of our nervous systems that are “older than trees!” (Queue the meme about the lobster hierarchy.) Peterson makes the rhetorical mistake of talking about “dominance hierarchy” but if you take the time to examine it closely, he means status. Loosing status is painful in a real, physiological sense. There are circuits in your brain designed to make you suffer whenever you loose status– just as there are circuits that release dopamine and serotonin when you gain or reaffirm your position in the status hierarchy.
In rollplaying terms, when you lose status, you take psychic damage.
If you have another hierarchy you can asses yourself on, that buffs your saving roll to the psychic damage– if you’re invested enough in the alternate hierarchy, it’s probably an automatic save. That’s is a large part of why I think the atheists in the laptop class are the hardest hit by status panic: they’re all in on the social status provided by their careers. They don’t have anything else, so they don’t have any buffs.
I specify atheists because (1) the laptop class is, in my experience, actively hostile to religion outside of using it as a quaint ethnic marker and (2) a strong relationship with the divine offers its own buff against psychic damage, and it’s hugely powerful. (It can also present entry into an alternative status hierarchy, but need not.)
@Robert (#149):
No, I never knew that, though it’s not surprising, I suppose. Tarring-and-feathering – ouch! A punishment once meted out in Northern Ireland during The Troubles, as I recall. I have occasionally experienced animosity from Irish and Aussies, but nowadays we Limeys and Merkins enjoy a kind of love affair. Funny to see how thrilled your president is with his invites to the Palace, yet still he wishes to wrest Canada from our monarchy. Just imagine if those poor Canadians ended up having to use coins that are upside-down at the back!
“Au contraire, if you take each layer of the brain as an evolutionary accretion to the ones below it, and note when certain kinds of behavior show up in vertebrates that have those layers, something much more subtle and sensible results.”
I guess what attracts me (an ambidextrous non-autist) to McGilchrist’s approach is that it allows for no excuses on the part of the individual, but merely explanations of its failures.
Neither evolutionary recourse nor societal influence can take anything away from an individual’s decision.
The divided brain structure we have is not that old in evolutionary terms, its parts are wildly asymmetrical, looked at from the outside its construction borders on the absurd, and that’s why it works.
It provides elegant explanations for such phenomena as the religion of progress, pronouns and self-harm, the unconscious that’s structured like a language (but isn’t one) and the barbarism of reflection.
Jennifer Kobernik and JMG,
I heard someone relay a tale once, I think it was on The Oil Drum. He said he was talking about class with a well to do woman from old money who disagreed with his definition of the upper class. She said “I always thought that one was working class if their parents worked for a living.” The way she said it conveyed a sense that this wasn’t her own personal sentiment from serious study or reflection, but rather a social norm that she was given to understand. From her pespective the large holdings of money weren’t the defining issue of class. Money was a necessary but not sufficient condition. To her upper class wasn’t the 1%, 0.1%, or even the 0.01% it was having parents who were born into that top status. This was in the USA, so there was no titled aristocracy in any official sense, but to be upper class in the minds of that class one had to come from old money.
Bearing that in mind JMG, yes I was joking. The USA only became truly wealthy as a nation relative to the wealthy European countries after WWII, so the Baby Boomers who are still running the place are first generation new money in a collective sense. They’re just getting acclimated to the trappings of wealth and power. Their parents had to work for a living.
That is some crazy thinking right there…wow.
Mary Bennet #148
The mind is spinning… so many categories and pigeonholes to remember!
It’s a subject for another time (or maybe life), but all these Karens, Barbies, Jareds, Kens and Kenneths are increasingly striking me as performative academic onerism.
I am returning to the midden. 🙂
May be getting bomby this weekend. Seymour Hersh, who blew the whistle on US involvement with the destruction of the Nordstream pipeline, says according to his sources that the US is going to join the bombing of Iran. Sigh, I was thinking Trump wouldn’t follow the war by USA in the Middle East somewhere from Libya to Afghanistan tradition.
https://substack.com/inbox/post/166335210
I am the fan of the Swiss approach, uninvolvement in foreign affairs (Washington in his farewell address warned against ‘entangling foreign alliances’), efficient government, healthy national economy, staying out of debt and a strong defensive military that would promptly stop any aggression against the homeland.
Just realising that (as some here may know) I grew up as a missionary’s daughter in Costa Rica where I was like the filling in the sandwich, as I got to see the “status game” from both sides very early in life.
In the English-language American school I attended my classmates were the children of diplomats, business investors, and other wealthy types who lived in large houses with swimming pools, had many servants, travelled abroad frequently, wore the coolest fashions, and had generous allowances to spend. None of which described our family’s living conditions, which were much more basic, so that among them I was a “scholarship girl”, not the most popular guest when it came to private parties, but good to invite to a study circle, as I was fairly studious.
On the other hand, compared to our nearest neighbours and day to day outdoor playmates, my family lived in the lap of luxury. Our house had a proper floor, running water, a telephone, a fridge, and separate bedrooms for each of us. We children ate well at every meal, had nice toys and books. Our house became the local telephone station for a number of families, and my mother (a trained nurse) was always willing to help with basic first aid, and nursely health care assistance.
Of the two status disparities that I grew up with, the disparity between myself and the children we played with who were poorer than we were was vastly more uncomfortable.
There was also a class difference between my parents (who, incidentally, celebrated 66 years happily married just last week) which it took me well into adulthood to become fully aware of. My father’s family had emigrated from a rural background in Nova Scotia to establish a successful grocery business in Boston, from the proceeds of which they made sure all three sons received a college education, and a launch pad into the middle classes. My mother’s family were more working class, her mother a children’s nurse for a private household, her father a merchant navy sailor with some savings, allowing him to become a more off-the-radar type of urban wheeler dealer. A few years back I became aware that my father’s family had not really considered my mother to be a suitable wife for him, and suddenly the large cultural and political differences between the two families began to make sense. Those differences have carried on to the third and fourth generation – PMC types among my father’s relatives, waged workers among my mother’s relatives – both perfectly illustrating the respective class sensibilities often discussed here.
So, to me, status (especially in the hierarchical sense of stations “above” and stations “below”) has complicated way too many of my relationships to be remotely useful to me personally, and so I have personally tended to opt for the “sideways” shuffle. Still, there is a different way to gain “status” (as in place) among humans and that is by striving to be useful in an “alongsidership” way.
Which brings me back around to my earlier point. Which is that your phrase “the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology” lends itself to consideration along the lines of the Stoic question: which part of this is in my control and which part of this is not?
And in this phrase of yours, the things which are not in my control are:
1) the status others will assign to me
2) the reactions my biological survival drives will produce in me if those status assignments should “eclipse” me or render me socially “placeless”.
But… the things which are in my control are:
1) my own social capacity to “assign” status to others
2) my own social power to give “place” to any other human being within my reach should they be open to accepting “alongsidership” with me.
It is worth knowing that, although one’s own powers are small, small and all as they are, they are real, and may make some difference to someone in this vexed game of “status.”
I am thankful that my parents appear to have successfully forged a happy marriage that has paid not one whit of attention to the class status differences others might have expected to divide them.
The above tendered in the spirit of “data points”. 🙂
Hey JMG
It’s great to have you back, I’ve been having to explore the archives of this site and ADR in your absence, which wasn’t a bad thing really.
On the subject of status being an explanation for the Karen phenomenon, it never occurred to me that anxiety and uncertain as to how to properly manage newfound status would be an explanation for why women go down the Karen route, but it seems plausible. However, my experience combined with various things you previously mentioned that touch on it, does still lead me to believing there’s a bit more to it than status.
I think you, or someone in the commentariat, suggested that the kind of drama Karens cause is intended to be a replacement for the kind of stimulating social or emotional interactions such women would usually get from a healthy social life or relationship, but for some reason can’t or won’t achieve. I also recall you and some of the other commenters talking about how if a woman can’t find a creative or sexual outlet for astral or etheric force they can develop various psychological problems that make them difficult to be around.
To my mind, these factors probably play a large role in the Karen phenomenon, most likely the exact reasons vary individually. In fact, could not status panic be inflamed by these causes, or vice versa?
Talk about timing.
Coming out of a bizzaro workplace feud/squabble that is right out of Tina Fey’s Mean Girls. I work in local government, in Florida, where my current boss, a classic A-Type who prides herself on being a 5th generation local and has a history of doing pretty good at the Disney marathon now finds herself dragged down by an autoimmune disorder (almost certainly caused by Covid jab) and has become largely dependent on her long time underling (and former secretary) to do her job for her. That underling, however, has her hopes set on the Boss Lady’s role and has been using her unearned privilege to snitch/bully/harass everyone in the office to the Karen max, including yours truly. After getting a second “disciplining” for a nonsense offense, I decided to out-Karen the Karens by writing to the Manager (aka the Deputy County Manager aka the one woman both these ladies fear), with all the buzz words that the former lawyer in me could muster to send the right Baboon bearing his teeth message (the Boss lady has a habit, neither good nor bad, but certainly concerning to HR, of mentioning she keeps a pistol in her cute leather bag, and while I don’t exactly feel danger, I can definitely say truthfully, and did, that I don’t feel safe). Long story short, after a few months of being harassed over one nothingburger after another, both the Boss and her underling are being very nice to me.
But as for the innate neuro-hardwired hierarchies, there is something truly challenging about co-Ed office environments, especially the ones that are truly female dominated, that will take some time to figure out. Order becomes that of the orca or elephant, specifically the matriarchal subvarieties, where rogue males are more or less harassed into leaving the group because there’s no real way to fit them into the intra-female hierarchy pyramid (and good luck figuring that one out). Not something that affects every field, as there are still some things that each gender does better than the other, but in the truly neutered field of government grant administration (oh yes), biology reigns supreme…
So as a result of this social change;
1) People will see and feel an increase in collective recognition of the value of hardwork and those who create measurable positive outcomes in their toil. I understand in an interim period of status change society defaults to acknowledging decent work ethic?
2) A reduction in covert social acknowledgement of status won by measure of hairstyle and capacity to project intersectionality into work politics. A reduction in preference fabrication.
3) A freeing of consciousness in those who have built work identities on houses of cards, or over compensating in managing grueling work days to keep status, or flying under the radar.
I believe I was able to bear witness to these these occurrences in a single work day. After reading this article of corse, which I guess makes me a rationalizing animal. Still hopeful though enough for change to happen though. Not to say that invading Alaska is out of the picture yet, though I haven’t seen this Loyalist comeback gain much ground. As a co-worker told me today, the wheels haven’t just come off the track they are broken and lying on the side of the Railway.
Kind Sir,
So now I know that a male Karen is a Kenneth. Living in Karen/Kenneth heartland this will be most useful to me.
One important question however remains.
Given the proliferation of Ks and their ability to operate in groups we need a collective noun. As in “A murder of crows, a flock of sheep…..”.
May I suggest “A clutch of Ks’?
The reason being that the pearl-clutch is traditionally the opening move in a Karen/Kenneth attack
Michael, yep. Trump seems to be well aware of the delicate line he’s walking between the wealthy interests who back him and the masses who support him, each of which has its own highly divergent interests.
Slithy, keep in mind that his very existence is anathema to them. The fact that people could, and did, calmly ignore everything the supposed masters of media control told them, and put Trump into office despite the anguished screams of those who thought they owned the future, is so unbearable to them that they will probably never recover from it.
TylerA, exactly. Thank you for getting it.
Michaelz, so noted. If you find it useful, by all means; I don’t.
Team10tim, you brushed up against what was left of the old capitalist class; interesting.
Scotlyn, thanks for the data points!
J.L.Mc12, hmm! That’s an interesting suggestion, which I’ll need to reflect on.
Chris, oog. I hope you can make your escape in due time.
Ian, delighted to hear this!
DropBear, that certainly works for me.
The PMC, or laptop class, is out of their minds here. I may be the only babyboom woman in a …50 ? 100’s ?mile radius who did not protest last weekend. Not literally true, but I do think this demographic was over represented there. I cant tell you how it is assumed, and I was asked, and then ones today were all talking about it. I told a couple people that I realy cant handle that much negative/hateful energy in one spot so could not be in such a crowded place or go, I was told to put what ever I wanted onto my sign, that I didnt need to be negative, I told them, but I will be surrounded by it. The reality is that I would be run out on a rail if I made a sign that said, calm down, its the law or these things come and go, lets go hike, or something.
I will say there is one positive thing said, one common ground, both last week and today. And that is that many also do not think that our elected officials are doing anything about any issue. Sometimes one is calm enough to converse with around the edges of the thing, and they absolutely agree that nothing of substance or any alternate solutions are being proposed by our elected officials ( which are democrat in this county and state, it is a one party state, but realy 1/3 vote R, which seems to be ignored.).
But, overall, TDS is raging in this county. Yes, they want to be seen as relevant, as right. Blinders are on, they do not see the actual economics that the country is facing. They are RIGHT, and will scream about it on the streets, or spell out RESIST or whatever this terms word is on the beach in color coded t shirts.
Ian @ 171:
“A reduction in covert social acknowledgement of status won by measure of hairstyle and capacity to project intersectionality into work politics. A reduction in preference fabrication.”
I can’t understand a word of that.
Our host has discussed before how in perilous times, people with actual, useful skills are valued and respected. However, I think we are a long ways yet from such a happy state of affairs. People do become highly emotionally invested not only in their own status ranking, but also in what they see as their Right to assign status to others. Recall the last incompetent frontline supervisor you may have known or worked for, male or female, not much to choose between. In that person’s mind, the favored characteristic or group of attributes, birth, beauty, family relationship, etc. was nothing less than The Same Thing as character and competence. Not that your average incompetent functionary knows the meanings of those two words, but you get the picture. Willful favoritism isn’t going away until it either gets a lot of people killed or loses substantial amounts of money.
WHile I know there were also men at the recent protests, I cant speak to which ones or their motivations.
Thinking more about your thesis and the women. As for the ones my age, plus or minus a decade. When young, we were supposed to be very lady like. We were not allowed to wear pants to school. I forget when that changed in California, my guess is by 1972 or 3. Then we were told that we must compete for jobs in the traditionally male dominated jobs, think of casual sex more like a male mind, Literal bra burning and freeing breasts, etc…. It very well could be that potential status change, even though having nothing to do with limiting female jobs or dress, is seen as particularly threatening for this group. Even though a majority of them are retired, they still identify with the pmc/laptop class.
@dropBear
One collective term I’ve seen before is “a home owners’ association of Karens.” It can of course be abbreviated to “an HOA of Karens.” Works for Kenneths, too.
Hi John Michael,
Man, you don’t want to be on the opposite end of that continuum either as a deep empath. The ‘speak to manager’ folks are highly turbulent people inside, and frankly speaking, they’re uncomfortable to be around. One of the issues with their approach is that people pick up on the turbulence at some level and get to experience the second hand emotions. For me, it is simply easier to tell them to: “Frack Off!”
The other weird aspects to all of these goings on is that the very status strategies being pursued are often closing the door on the following generations. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense to do that, because eventually the younger generations simply withdraw support. It’s not a fight for the same status, but more of a quiet walking away. I have a hunch that loose talk of the ‘bank of mum and dad’ you hear in the media down here, is actually a power and control mechanism tricked up to look like a dangled trinket.
Crazy stuff. Happy summer solstice to you.
Cheers
Chris
@aldarion #157.
You might want to reread my comment. I used two examples of potential ways to achieve high status. One example was to have physical attractiveness and Charisma. The other was to have high intelligence and a gift for self promotion ( Carl Sagan). In fact Carl had more than just mathematical intelligence. He was refused tenure at Harvard because he researched and wrote about multiple disciplines from Astronomy to Evolutionary Biology, and that offended their academic sensibilities.
I took Astronomy 101 from Dr. Sagan and he was truly a polymath and gifted educator. Many people also found him charismatic, though it is hard to determine if they would have died for him.
@Tom River #151. Senior citizens? How many walkers, wheelchairs, power chairs, “granny nannies” and caps saying “WWII vet” did you see at those protests?
Atmospheric, many thanks for the data points. That’s interesting, about women of your generation.
Chris, and of course that’s another benefit of autism — I can be polite even to someone who’s in the middle of a serious emotional meltdown. Not that I always choose to do so, of course. 😉
Mr. House,
I didn’t learn about the 4am Club from Bad Cattitude. I haven’t read him in a long while, so I have no idea what you are talking about. I know about the 4am Club from TikTok.
@Clay Dennis, sorry for mixing up your examples! I do still think that while good looks, charisma (of whatever sort) or intelligence may not hurt anybody’s status, their importance varies wildly between epochs. There were times and places when really only your birth mattered, and others when only your martial courage and skills did – or your skill at dancing the minuet or at riding…
“This lasted until about the 1890s, when the very wealthiest families (almost exclusively on the East Coast) began to play status games with one another by trying to marry into relatively impoverished British aristocracy.”
Part of the back story of Downton Abbey. So the writers didn’t just make that up.
” It would never occur to Jane Austen’s protagonists to worry about their skill set, while they never stop worrying about their status.”
Their skill sets were their “accomplishments” which were laid out in detail in Pride and Prejudice. The greatest skill was “artlessly” acquiring a husband, artless being a virtue at the time. That word’s connotation has certainly changed.
Lucy Steele was definitely not artless and pried her way into high status. I rather liked her. Second daughter, ignored by everyone, her uncle the tutor couldn’t be bothered to teach her anything beyond the basics, and she still managed to pull herself up by the bootstraps.
Our ‘elite’ (at least, that’s what we laughingly call them) have great difficulty envisioning their social position seriously eroded, never mind their demise, nor a state of being without them. Scratched and dented maybe but otherwise, no, they could never be brought down. RepIaced? By whom? Who could possibly match their breadth and depth of knowledge and enlightenment? We need them, we do, they have degrees, they do, see, they have them framed, on walls.
And raw power. After all they have millions of useful idiots in the ranks of Deplorables who would willingly and unthinkingly risk their lives to defend this farcical dispensation.
The towering self-regard can only have been matched by Roman senators at their own empire’s pinnacle. Our laptoppers put on daily demonstrations of might and invulnerability by adopting the most preposterous precepts, defying the fabric of reality itself, and then requiring all of their peers and social inferiors to adopt the same rules of thought and conduct. ‘Luxury beliefs’ some call these poses, individually survivable only if you have the financial resources. But what about society as a whole, or more narrowly, the alleged elites that foist such stuff? Do there exist sufficient means to bail out the combined misbehaviors of millions?
So, good luck, getting your arms around how things got here is a herculean task given the scale of folly. Future historians could spend lifetimes of incredulity detailing the absurdities perpetrated. But could we maybe give them an assist? Could we maybe say what straw broke the camel’s back? The problem of course is the heaps and bales to go through to pick one. Is there an obvious event horizon where we say, after this, there was no going back, no possible recovery?
Maybe the chief problem is the laptop class ignoring the lessons of history, the French aristocracy guillotined, the Kaiser bowing out, the Romanovs shot, Ottoman and Hapsburg rulers chased away, the Nazis crushed and much later the communists shown the door. Oh, it’s different this time, is it? Yes, as my dad would say, it’s always different, it’s just the end that’s the same.
But there are lighter moments in these momentous times, like watching CNN and The Gray Lady create history’s first cut as they gravely and dispassionately chronicle events, or people like David Brooks as they write most eloquently, telling us about the ‘highly educated’. Jesus save us.
I am reluctant to use a Television show as an example in this class discussion but in this case it fits so perfectly I have a hard time holding back.
Apple studios recently put out a one season tv show ( in the old days we would call it a miniseries) called ” your friends and family” I was set in a posh NYC suburb ( Rye NY was used as the set). The protagonist played by John Hamm is a rich high Ivy League hedge fund guy. He loses his job and struggles to keep from falling down the status latter within his community and circle of friends.
He accomplishes this by burglarizing his neighbors posh homes. Even when unemployed he exudes the epitome of the high status individual ( looks, clothes, friends, manners etc) that even when security guards arrive at a home he is robbing they find his presence normal and leave satisfied. After many misadventures he eventually returns to his former trade and source of money. Not high art, but an unusual American bit of class examination.
JMG and my fellow commentators,
I have a question regarding status envy and technocratic “expert” management. How did it get mixed up with science fiction? Even now, despite the ongoing invasion of the genre by dreary “literary writers” (something that began with New Wave SF in the 70’s) sci-fi is still considered lowbrow literature. It is full of cheesy lunatic flights of fancy and most, if not all of it’s major bedrock assumptions are things that are easily shown to be fantasy with a simple engineering or scientific analysis.
Yet our expert class adores its premises and behaves as if they are real possibilities. For a class that built its rep on “science” and “logic” and being “cultured” they venerate flights of fancy born from low brow genre fiction to the tune of billions of dollars annually. How did this happen? Was it just fallout from TV and the Manhattan Project? The more you think about it the weirder it seems.
Cheers,
JZ
I mentioned this a bit before in the post on tariffs but I’ll believe the entrepreneurs are in control when I see the US creating its version of a Shenzhen — a special economic zone where manufacturing and exports are encouraged with lighter regulations, infrastructure to support it etc. The Rust Belt was the early equivalent of this, today, it seems everywhere is bogged down in regulation and parasitism to prevent new building.
Until then, well for a start, settling with the longshoremen union to avoid automation when every other major exporting nation has highly automated port operations doesn’t seem like a good start to becoming an export focused country.
(The whole longshoremen strike itself seemed very much led by boomers, with a different class background from the No Kings protests and more bargaining power)
Until then, well, the Trump-Musk relationship seems emblematic of how it’s going — a few prominent tech entrepreneurs came out strongly to support Trump, Trump threw a few bones to the DOGE but the pork is still being fed to the mosquitoes.
Vance probably has a lot of affinity with the entrepreneurs, Peter Thiel mentored him and he himself had a VC fund, but ultimately he’s not in control, he just isn’t as autistic as Elon and knows when to pick his fights.
Something also came to my mind; a lot of people who hate Elon or other “tech bros” also have this kind of status panic. The PMC/laptop class can see that this is a new socio-economic class with increasing economic power and different values and are trying to “out-status” them even if economically they are losing to them. IIRC a lot of them call Elon a Karen and so on.
@160 Slithy Toves
Progressivism is a cult, and to reject TDS, the average progressive not only has to admit to themselves that they fell for lies, but become isolated from their social circle. The awakened progressive would get ostrachized by their “tolerant”, “loving” cult if she talks about her change of views, or she would get tired of living a double life and remove herself from those people.
Plus, they’re addicted to hating Trump and are not self aware enough to realize they even have a hate/anger problem.
JMG, If a declining economy makes growth and investments inherently untenable, are there any careers that will leverage a declining economy?
Just listened to you on Unherd. Now I know why you were on the London trains. First time I’ve heard your voice — discovered your blog a couple years ago, so relatively new to your work. Nice to get to know you better this way. I have a couple questions arising from your interview, but I’ll save those for the next open post.
Hi John, I guess the brain stem judges status by the value of the cards that have been dealt; and the cortex could train itself to judge status by how well the cards are played. (Anyone who has played duplicate bridge understands this distinction very well.) Continuing with the analogy, the laptop elites had been dealt a high-value hand, and they attributed their success to their card playing rather than the cards. Now a new hand’s being dealt, and their new cards aren’t high at all.
Like Mary Whitehouse, the TV character Victor Meldrew, and so on, ‘Karen’ is the straw man created so that we are all orchestrated to mock her and those who expect higher standards. The reason these characters are created is to keep us in the mire of sub-standard service, accepting an increasingly crapper world. Not a criticism of the frontline workers who has to take the rage thrusted at them, but of the system itself.
I see an interesting reflection of these events here in India.
The English-spouting upper-middle class, which serves the role of the laptop class here in India, has long believed itself to be intellectually superior to the ordinary Indian who doesn’t know English. They keep spouting myriad words like “secularism” and “Socialism” into an intricate web of verbiage that serves only to confuse the ordinary folk and delegitimise their perspectives and needs. Eventually the people grew tired of this, and they elected a guy who never speaks English publicly to be the head of state.
Since independence back in 1947, each prime minister of India has had to speak in English to be taken seriously. Each of them at least tries to use the language in order to be taken seriously. Those who cannot speak English are treated as country boors. And now, Narendra Modi openly flaunts this unwritten rule by delivering one public discourse after another in Hindi.
This has, of course, driven my class (the English class) insane. Those among us who sympathize with the non-English folk watch with glee as the more posh-acting English-speaking fellas make relentless tirades against the man, accusing him of everything from being a coward, to being a thief, to being “like Hitler”, to whatever else their fancy suffices.
I find Ambrose comment interesting. But as our host indicates. Social status is determined by society. But I do believe what Ambrose talks about is true during the Warlord and Military Aristocracy phase of societal development where Martial Skill counts for much. Where Knights on Horseback can have contests of Valour.
Until population grows large enough to enable mass participation of Infantry which ends up setting up a large scale Bureaucracy like in Ancient Rome or Imperial China in order to tax and organise Empires with their large scale armies who eventually overpower Militarily Aristocratic Armies.
Either transforming them into an Officer Class or incentivizing their children to become the Laptop Class. Who indirectly commands the Military/Police.
Imperial China is a good example of what would have happened if Rome survived. Their Laptop Class is long enduring for Millennia.
It simply depends on the stage of development.
>May I suggest “A clutch of Ks’?
How about a Clusterf*** of Karens, since that’s what they tend to induce in the environment around them.
@Mary Bennet
Ha, yes, that point was a line of jargon wasn’t it. ‘The competitive advantage of projecting intersectional qualities will be reduced’ which is a feature of DEI.
State sanctioned discrimination, for the purpose of leveling the playing field, was not effective in the way it was meant to be.
The pendulum is moving back towards the old status quo in this regard and the potential for over correction can be witnessed, something I think has also been discussed on this blog.
The particular demographic, if the stories are true, that historically tend to land in the category of the favored will be championed again. Though this time will the memory of woke politics restrain louder trumpets? We haven’t yet thrown the whole ideology out the window up here so remains to be seen.
You mention willful favortism, and the conflation of character and competence with more superficial qualities. I do wonder if the supression of good work ethic as a variable conferring status will now be heavily valued. If the concept of hard work will be the quality that even incompotent supervisors are compelled to fabricate as a preference.
I have a love/hate relationship with supervising myself. The times I have found myself in middle management positions I worked to get there, and then found the job itself very difficult. I have found a small measure of poise in my current role and try and lead by example when I feel called on to do so.
In my book a male Karen is still a Karen.
I don’t assume Karen’s gender. (lol)
and for Dropbear
a stampede of Karens
Mary Bennett wrote:
Neptune’s Dolphins @ 132 & 133, First, full disclosure, I voted for neither major party candidate in 2016. I was relieved, not shocked when bloodthirsty Hillary, AKA Killary, AKA Shillary, lost. “Aging Hippies” are, by definition, not persons of high status. They were, in fact, some of the first to drop out of the capitalist rat race. Some did run home to Mommy and Daddy when the trust funds ran out, but not all. It was the self-styled “Radicals”, 2nd and 3rd gen Mittel European migrants, most of them, who flocked into the welfare and other govt. beaurocracies. (And who made sure Daniel Moynihan and Richard Nixon’s Guaranteed Annual Income proposal would never get through Congress). Their faction is still with us, the rabid Ziocons of today.
—- Me: Aging hippies. The people demonstrating in the two intersections were wearing tie-dyed clothes and beach wear. The tie-dyed to me means “hippie.” However, you could be right since the areas they were demonstrating is full of retired federal government workers.
Mary Bennett:
Furthermore, citizens over the age of 50 are still citizens, with full rights under the Constitution and many of them do vote. Demonstrations are organized. They have to be. Someone has to arrange for the parade permits, handle the publicity, schedule the speakers and so on.
Me: These particular citizens were blocking traffic both ways and harassing drivers and pedestrians. I was a pedestrian trying to cross at the crosswalk. Police had to be called.
As for others, I do know of people who did get permits to protest along the sidewalk and at the courthouse. They were over the age of sixty, many using walkers and canes mixed in with younger people acting as their aides – ushering them to shade, finding seats, etc.
Mary Bennett: Need I remind this commentariat that the RW media is a beneficiary of generous corporate and foundation subsidy?
Me: I list my sources so that people can look them up. The First is run by Bill O’Reilly. Real America’s Voice (I reversed the name.) has a press corps. However, they do have Steve Bannon as a major commentor – i.e. the daily “War Room.”
I was interested in trying to find out why the LA riots and elsewhere seemed not to be spontaneous. I look for hand-made signs and the like in demonstrations. Many had printed signs and t shirts. I wondered about that since it does take some time to make both. DW (German News) that I watch on PBS was curious too. They found that CASA (immigration organization) was funding the protests. As to who funds CASA? I can only guess. One of the heirs to the Walmart Corporation did publish a full-page ad in the NYT urging protest against tyranny.
I do have a question: what are Ziocons? I have not heard the term before.
@Siliconguy (#184):
Yes, it was a real thing; the writers of Downton Abbey didn’t just make it up. One of my students at Brown was a granddaughter (IIRC) from such a marriage between US wealth and centuries-old UK aristocratic status, so I heard a fair amount about how that sort of thing used to be done.
Her UK relatives prided themselves on never once having yielded to the pressure from the Crown to renounce the Roman Catholic Church and conform to the Church of England; they maintained a secret Catholic chapel and “hiding-holes” for Catholic priests, as well as an illegal printing press, in their ancestral home.
@team10tim (#164):
Old — really old — money is also a well-known thing here on the East Coast. One of my faculty colleagues at Brown came from such an old-money family, and it was quietly known that his salary from the University was only a nominal $1/year. It would have been beneath him to accept an actual salary for his fine work as a scholar and teacher.
The foundations of his family’s ancestral wealth were laid as long ago as the 1600s, in Salem, Massachusetts. (Salem was settled a few years before the Puritan fleet under John Winthrop arrived in Boston Harbor and founded the Massachusetts Bay Colony. It was never as religious as most of the other towns in that strictly Puritan colony, but a relatively secular commercial seaport.)
#Dropbear
A frown of Kenneths ?
A disapproval of Karens?
Did other generations have a vigorous protest against being diminished? I do recall Republicans who railed against FDR, but I am not sure if they took to the streets.
Also, were the anarchists and the like another time of extreme protest against the elites? Besides Russia and Germany, what did the elites do to counter them? I do know that Russia and Germany usually locked them up or killed them. I forget what Austro-Hungry did. Where did the anarchists get their money?
I know these are simple questions. I am wondering if the protests that are going on today are due to the numbers of people existing in the U.S. and the media hyping them up. Also, is there more money going into these protests? Are these protests the enraged elites fighting back against change? Is that different or were the old elites more subtle?
Who supported the anarchists and those people? I don’t recall reading about where they got their funds from.
Sorry for all the questions. I just am trying to put all this in perspective.
>I was interested in trying to find out why the LA riots and elsewhere seemed not to be spontaneous. I look for hand-made signs and the like in demonstrations. Many had printed signs and t shirts. I wondered about that since it does take some time to make both. DW (German News) that I watch on PBS was curious too. They found that CASA (immigration organization) was funding the protests. As to who funds CASA? I can only guess. One of the heirs to the Walmart Corporation did publish a full-page ad in the NYT urging protest against tyranny.
DataRepublican on Xitter points to Neville Singham being the biggest guy (for you) funding the web of front orgs that ultimately put people on the ground. Nobody has disputed her report as of yet.
>I do have a question: what are Ziocons? I have not heard the term before.
Um. Look for the politicians enthusiastically supporting that small middle eastern country nobody else is supposed to talk about? Like with the Epstein list, you can make one of your own, with a little bit of research. List, that is, not a ziocon. Those are made by an agency of that small middle eastern country that you are doubly not supposed to talk about ever. Typically with either bribes or blackmail or some linear combination of both.
TDS may be raging, but so is TDA, Trump Derangement Adulation. It’s like the opposite of TDS but when someone thinks the Great Golden Golem of Greatness (ahem) can do no wrong and they delight in every smear and attack he makes on whatever person or group he is picking on in any given day. I understand. Sometimes it is funny, in the same way as a circus. Yet I like a sideshow, but I don’t laugh at the freaks…
Biden sucked in the way that most politicians suck by not doing what he said. Or the people who were behind him not doing what they made him say he would do, when he read the lines off the teleprompter barely correct. Here I am thinking about when he said he would try to dial down the polarization and heal the divide, then looked like Darth Vader in a room full of red. I know that didn’t happen, and I didn’t really expect it to. I thought Trump just might do something to help dial it down, but he revels in name calling, such as calling his opposers “scum,” which doesn’t do much for healing our divisions. At least he didn’t say he was going to heal the divide.
As for the recent protests, I thought they were at least more effective in their strategy than other recent resistance operations, by not engaging in the D.C. area. Astroturfed? Yes as in organized by opposition groups. But also quite legitimate and tapping into real feelings of some of the people in this great country. I thought it was at least worth protesting the current administration on account me having some hopes for DOGE, but to spend 45 million to 96 million after campaigning on cutting expenditures and bringing down the debt… well, lets just say I stand closer to Musk and Rand Paul on this issue. The Big Beautiful Bill leaves a lot to be desired.
Also there was the military aspect, which I think is still worth protesting. To celebrate the US army and our military might, after decades and decades of leading soldiers to death, or to come home and commit suicide, is sad. Celebrating the military, when American adventurism and empire is arguably a big reason why so many illegal immigrants are here in the first place, after CIA coups, resource extraction, and the wearing down of their own internal structures from our interventions…. that’s where we should look if we are worried about people coming into this country. Perhaps it is karma from invading so man others. Where is the DOGE in cutting the military budget? Onward Christian soldiers.
Americans are also grappling with high taxes because of internal immigration of legal citizens, due to climate change. That will only get worse, but climate change has been canceled.
Okay, so if TDA is the opposite of TDS, hopefully at least some of us can triangulate from that to somewhere in the middle for a reasonable approach to our Eigenblick. I think commenter Emmanuel Goldstein wrote about this binary on a post some months ago too…
But I also see the current admin as part of the status panic for the entrepreneurial class -who obviously want to keep their status. The position occupied by WASPish men in our society may have been coming under threat by the policies and preachments of the woke when they were in power, and now the pendulum swings back to the other pole, so the woke-right can try to maintain a vision of their status as male heads of household in one nation under god, where they are head of the family, head of the corporation, head of the country. The reversion to second religiosity is a flight to former stable social norms, true, but it is also a reaction to their own status panic when their own position is threatened by ideologies they oppose. Now some of those admin, and many followers, have gone woke-right and are canceling the cancel culture that many of us disliked, with their own version of the same. Will the momentum of these culture war pendulum swings ever settle down?
The white grievance culture coming out of the administration, and its tie in with Christian nationalism, is something I can’t get behind, even as I couldn’t get behind the coverups and failures of the last administration. I feel that criticizing Trump for the way he trolls people is a legitimate criticism. So much energy, like the energy spent in writing this, gets divested from fixing the major issues and instead spent on these kinds of battles… but then I learned from this blog long ago the difference between problems and predicaments. I guess the culture wars are more of a predicament that gets accelerated by our problems, and the need for people to look for distractions from underlying causes.
My own position is that either extreme woke, or extreme woke-right is too extreme. Politically homeless, without TDS or TDA, what’s a gal, guy, or “non-binary” they-them to do?
I hope everyone who celebrated Juneteenth had a good one. I enjoyed the fireworks in my neighborhood. For everyone celebrating the solstice tomorrow I hope it is delightful.
>delivering one public discourse after another in Hindi
It’s interesting listening to Hindi as an English speaker, that language has picked up quite a bit of loanwords from English. I haven’t decided whether it’s in my interest to learn that language or not. I do know the only way I’ll ever learn Mandarin or French is if someone pays me to do so. And I demand it as compensation for future pain and suffering.
I do know you can fake it quite a bit responding to anything someone is telling you in Hindi with “A-cha” – that supposedly pencils out to OK in Hindi.
As you might guess from my earlier post, I am troubled by your selection of the word “assigned.” Now I’m aware that, as someone said, “history is full of the sound of silk slippers coming down the stairs and wooden boots going up the stairs But it doesn’t always work out well. I suppose the extreme example of status reassignment is Chairman Mao’s “cultural revolution:” suppose we elevate peasants to the status of surgeons and make the surgeons labor in the fields. That is often held up as an example of something that didn’t work out too well; not to mention the human toll. And then there’s the whole gender assigned at birth tar-baby. I suspect there’s more biology in the mix than you care to admit. Not that I want to belabor the point any further or to make a nuisance of myself.
“Ziocons”? A clever coinage. I took it to mean Zionist Neocons. If one were to create a Ven Diagram, I bet there’d be quite a significant overlap.
>From what I pick up that way, it sounds more like they were allowed to do their jobs back then in a way that they aren’t now because of perpetual downward budgetary pressures and interference from higher-ups
Everybody’s just trying to get through the day, aren’t they? That’s all that matters, just get to the end of the day so you can go home and live out what little life is left to you.
Smith, nah, every elite class ends up with that kind of overinflated self-regard in the decades immediately before they’re tipped into history’s dumpster. It’s an inevitable part of the bleaky funny comedy we call “history.”
Clay, duly noted.
John, welcome to one of the great but unmentionable lessons of history. The elite classes, the experts, the people who supposedly know better than the rest of us? They’re always, without exception, mouthing ideas that were invented by some crackpot subculture on the fringes a century back. Science fiction is a great example — it was a literature read almost entirely by sweaty-palmed teenage boys during its glory days between the wars, when pulp writers making a penny a word coined the entire vocabulary of images and ideas that more respectable science fiction writers have been rehashing ever since. Now it dominates the thought of the elite classes. Look at the rise of socialism, say, or ideological conservatism, or any other body of thought, and you’ll find the same thing. Culture is born on the fringes, in grubby little subcultures everyone despises, and makes its way in from there, sucked into the vacuum that the privileged classes have in place of original thought.
…and now you know why I’m so comfortable sitting out here on the fringes. Ahem.
Alvin, it’s very, very early days yet, and a lot of things need to happen before special economic zones start being created. I won’t be a bit surprised if we see them within the decade, though.
Subotai, sure. As the economy contracts, most established businesses will end up too large and cumbersome to adapt, and any sufficiently nimble entrepreneur who can provide people with goods or services they want without the hassles of dealing with failing bureaucracies will thrive. It’s very much a matter of niche markets — I know a guy, for example, who makes a good living reconditioning old stereo systems and selling them to the growing crowd of people who want to play records again. People who can repair old technologies or what have you are also doing well — we have a small appliance repair shop here in East Providence for the first time in decades. Fixers, go-betweens, people who know how to get around bureaucratic bottlenecks, are also a growth industry these days. A century or so from now, those will have run their course, but for now those are good options.
Michael, thank you. The next open post will be next week, so I’ll look forward to your questions.
Greg, a very solid metaphor!
Pholiate, do you have any evidence that the Karen stereotype was manufactured, as you suggest? I ask this because the notion that people can’t possibly come up with ideas themselves, that they can only be fed them by one or another faction of the laptop class, is one of the most widespread and inaccurate superstitions of our time. As for “higher standards,” I’m all in favor of those, starting with the more privileged classes (such as “Karens”) holding themselves to higher standards of decent behavior when interacting with their social inferiors…
Rajarshi, Arnold Toynbee, sitting in some book-lined study on the inner planes, is smiling. The English-speaking class you describe is a textbook example of what he called an “intelligentsia,” a manufactured native class that adopts the manners, ideas, and language of the colonizing overlords as a way to give themselves heightened status at the expense of the rest of the native population. By giving speeches in Hindi, Modi is challenging the very foundations of their identity — and he’s on the winning side, of course, in the long run.
Info, Giambattista Vico would have agreed with you. One way to talk about the cycle of history he sketched out is to see it as the process by which factors rooted in biology are supplanted by factors rooted in society, until the society falls apart and it’s back to biology again.
Dobbs, I like that!
Neptunesdolphins, the class being replaced in 1933 didn’t take to the streets, because the protest march hadn’t been fetishized then the way it was in the wake of the 1960s. In 1860, the class being replace didn’t take to the streets, it took to the field:
As for the European protests of the 19th century, I don’t know that anybody’s chased down the money. An intriguing question!
Eagle Fang, oh, I know. The opposite of one bad idea is another bad idea, and that’s certainly true of the paired derangements that seize our society when it’s in the middle of an elite replacement cycle. Inevitably some moderately charismatic but otherwise unexceptional politician gets turned into the lightning rod for paired projections of absolute evil and absolute good. Yes, there was plenty of Lincoln Derangement Syndrome and its opposite, just as there was plenty of Roosevelt Derangement Syndrome and its opposite. I’m sorry to say that it won’t calm down until the elite replacement cycle has more or less run its course, at which point things will settle down to ordinary levels of vilification and adulation.
Phutatorius, I’m not saying that it’s assigned by a bureaucracy somewhere — just that it’s the product of social forces that are subject to change on time scales much faster than evolution!
JMG- really enjoyed this. As a member of the healthcare worker class that mostly does laptop work I’m glad to have some of my thoughts on this really fleshed out in this post. Now that there are possible cuts to Medicaid many of my colleagues say “our funding won’t go away because we are…..” (so important). Many parts of the system need to go away including the use of the laptop as part of caring for people
re: Karen and Kenneth,
It wasn’t that long ago I did retail, and I have to admit I’ve never heard the phrase “Kenneth” until now. Karen, yes, and often– but we had no male equivalent because we didn’t need one. The Karens were pretty much exclusively female. (I can think of a few exceptions over the years, but every single male that might have been called Karen was of visible minority background, so god help you if you even thought of slapping a name to their bad behavior.)
I’m guessing that’s because in this neck of the woods, men (especially white men) are downwardly mobile as a class. After all, when you were at the top, where is there to go but down? There won’t be many nouveau-riches amongst a downwardly-mobile bunch, and that creates a different pattern of behavior than the Karen. (Perhaps we might look to the Incels or the Andrew Tate fans to see status panic amongst men.)
@JMG,
Your reply tickled the status-affirming circuits in my lizard brain. Thanks for the dopamine!
Neptunes’ Dolphins @ 199, the organized No Kings protests deliberately avoided DC. I seem to recall that you live in the DC area, apologies if I have that wrong. The tie dyed beachcombers should have known better, but so should the Jan 2, 2020 “protesters” or “insurgents” or whatever one wants to call them. I would, however, like to point out that raucous, in your face vulgar rudeness is a part of our national character, indulged in with verve and enthusiasm by nearly all of us. We are not an elegant and refined people.
The term ‘ziocon’ is a contraction of Zionist and neocon, in other words, a rabidly militaristic supporter of the certain ME country referred to by Other Owen above.
Andy @ 210, gaggle of Karens, of course, as in gaggle of geese, a Karen being the sort of female who used to be called a goose.
neptunesdolphins, about your 202 comments, I take it for granted that right, left, Dumbocrats and Rethuglicans are all being lavishly supported by various commercial, if not also foreign, deep pocketed interests. As for the 19thC anarchists, while I have my doubts about much of the conspiracy theorizing swirling around that period of European history, I do agree with those who claim that the anarchists were being supported by the British Empire. Dying empires resort to such things, look at CIA sponsoring of various terrorist organizations for a contemporary example.
Ian Duncombe @ 197: You typed “State sanctioned discrimination, for the purpose of leveling the playing field, was not effective in the way it was meant to be.” Ah, but object of state supported discrimination was never uplift of impoverished and minority communities. The true object was to gain the political support of those communities for a lightly disguised, for form’s sake, pro corporate agenda.
Supervision is difficult. The one quality required, emotional detachment, is in short supply in our society in which “how I feel” trumps good sense and clear evidence alike.
The class being replaced in 1933 undoubtedly remembered the “riot” in 1932.
https://www.nps.gov/articles/the-1932-bonus-army.htm
Kunstler posted this very appropriate for the times quote;
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” —Marcus Aurelius
One comment on status panic and the 50-something we see at the “No Kings” protests:
Yesterday, going through my least-used bookcase, I ran across Neil Howe’s 800-page 2023 blockbuster book called “The Fourth Turning is Here.” (Gee willikers, Mr. Howe, whatever clued you to that?) Among other things, he walked us through our age’s many predecessors, and then turned the spotlight on the past 3/4 of a century and who was what. His analysis of today’s 50-somethings, Generation X, matched my memories of the period perfectly, and its secret was this: *They were called Bad Kids from the very start.* He had prolific detail to back that up, again matching my memories of what I heard perfectly.
I repeat: they were assigned a low status, a negative status, almost from birth. And reacted accordingly, by, in youth, adopting the label and, like JMG’s “Basement brigade,” did so gleefully. Then as they grew older, became the hard-bitten pragmatists that got the dirty jobs done. Which often came with a rise in status of one sort or another; but their base identity underneath, the hidden secret, was “life’s losers,” or “slackers.”
Two caveats here: he notes that the older Xers, those raised by parents who are now today’s seniors, had more exposure to good manners and stability in childhood. Though we, as parents, having had far too little freedom for our own good, reacting by giving our children too much freedom for their own good. I’m here to tell you that’s the gods’ own truth; and my daughter has reacted by micromanaging and scrutinizing my grandsons’ every move; I see it every time I’m there. Also, some of us did what the Boomers did, and set out -in midlife – to join them in their rebellion. And the Xers raised by Boomers were massively neglected. (Note: this is a generality; I know there are exceptions, and all of you know of some.)
So …. now they’re screaming bloody murder at having their old enemy, a Boomer, go after their hard-won status with a bulldozer. And of course, every Boomer in the bureaucracy is screaming bloody murder as well.
(A side note: he notes as we all have, that the youngest cohorts are downwardly mobile and know it, and are pulling in their horns en masse: going for security, and so on. And a sidenote on a business page noted that GenZ (Zoomers) make unsatisfactory employees because they *missed a lot of their development during the COVID-19 lockdown.* To which I say, “Amen!”)
JMG,
It seems that the flag bearers of the current laptop class are the lawyers. The hallmark of the current managerial class is the monopolization of most of the key areas of government and business interaction by the lawyers. Do you think that one of the early signs of the next elite replacement cycle will be the reduction or outright elimination of the importance of lawyers?
JMG,
Just confirming that Roosevelt Derangement Syndrome was definitely a thing. My grandfather and his father, having been bootleggers in the 1920s who kept a big stash of gold at their house, absolutely despised FDR, to the point where my grandfather (a railroad engineer) would, even 50 years later, take Roosevelt dimes and put them on railroad tracks.
Imagine what TDS sufferers would do if Trump was put on one of the dollar bills?
I see great value in trying to understand the bizarre morphing of Western society and its denizens in recent decades, and you’ve certainly helped me to grapple with this in your essay this week. So, thank you, JMG – and welcome back!
I’ve never really cared about social class – either my own personally, or that of people I associate with – but it has been painfully obvious to me throughout my life that it means a great deal to a lot of other people! Perhaps it is due to my family’s fall from social grace during my childhood. My upwardly mobile parents were big fish in the small pond (population: 20,000) that I grew up in. And then they divorced, becoming social pariahs virtually overnight. Each of them made new friends, as did I, but things were never the same afterwards.
I feel great pity for societies where status is the be all and end all of life. The area where my kids grew up has a predominance of South Asian immigrants. I recall my 13-year-old daughter telling me how she had a bizarre conversation with her (at the time, best) friend, a Sri Lankan immigrant, regarding a popular, fun carefree pop song of the time. Her friend said, “Oh, that’s a White girl song; Brown girls like me can never have a carefree moment in life.” And her friend was right. The amount of pressure that this girl, and nearly all others of her community, to study, study, study to become a doctor (the pinnacle of social status in South Asian societies), and never have fun (except a highly-controlled and ostentatious 16th birthday party, which didn’t sound like fun to me) while growing up was insane. Virtual prisoners of social competition. What a colossal waste of life!
Part of me rejoices in the growing anxiety of the laptop class, as they have, as a whole, behaved pretty monstrously to their social inferiors (noblesse oblige – oh, puhleeease!) and casually kicked each other in the gutter in what my father dismissed as “the rat race”. Every dog has his day; que sera sera! I was glad to make an early exit from a laptop profession that was becomingly increasingly loopy as it followed the government clients ideologically into social Marxist la-la-land, over-run by domineering middle-aged females and sparsely populated by servile effeminate young men – I was a total misfit who just got tired of having to fight for the right to have a contrary opinion. Long gone were the days where the company’s founder – a brilliant and contrary-thinking son of a Ukrainian immigrant farmer – could humourously sport a bright red ‘MAGA’ hat in the office the day Trump won the US election in 2016 without incident!
Yet another part of me realizes that individuals of this downwardly mobile class are feeling real pain. I am reminded of the story told by a former colleague of mine, whose family had fled for their lives on foot from central China to Hong Kong during the revolution, leaving the life of the landed aristocracy behind them forever. This colleague told me how her eldest uncle had never recovered from the shock and was never able to pick up useful skills (i.e., trade – after all, it was Hong Kong) and just leached off the rest of the family mourning the old days back in China until he died… Not as though there is much that I, or any of us, can do for this class. They are going out with the tide (along with a lot of their professions: AI is already ravaging the consulting world that I used to work in). And many, like my colleague’s uncle, will fade away feeling bitter and sorry for themselves about the injustice of it all. But wherever possible, when encountering such individuals, especially if we know them, we should encourage them to think outside the box that they participated in making for themselves and instead develop skills that will better serve them to survive in the future. There is no dearth of such people: I know loads of people who have lost their job in 2025 and have yet to find another job. It sure is getting bleak out there!
JMG, this essay is so helpful, there are SO MANY Karens in my town ( wealthy DC suburb)and my generation, first encountered in college, I’m your age, went to college in early 80’s had got to witness the end of the glorious 70’s lifestyle from the slightly older boomers (the Beatles concerts! the hitchhiking! the drugs! the sex! the cool and cheap denim!, the job with a pension!, too bad its all gone!).
I read your title as a medical term , which is also a helpful framing. Status means “in a (continuing) state of” such as “status epilepticus” is an unbroken seizure.
birgit
@Alvin 188–
You wrote,
“Until then, well for a start, settling with the longshoremen union to avoid automation when every other major exporting nation has highly automated port operations doesn’t seem like a good start to becoming an export focused country.”
There are two major longshoremen unions in the US, one on the East Coast and one on the West Ccast. They are completely independent from each other.
The ILWU is the important union on the West Coast. The ILWU came to terms with containerized shipping decades ago. instead of resisting its implementation, the union negotiated job security or early retirement with benefits for the members they had at the time, and access for their current and future members to the more skilled jobs of the new technology, such as operating the huge cranes that hoist containers off ships and load them onto rail cars.
There are fewer of these jobs than the old jobs humping break bulk cargo, but they are less physically demanding and they pay well because the ILWU secured good contracts.
All the major ports on the West Coast have been fully containerized for decades. The ports are profitable to the extent global trade is free, and the ILWU remains a strong union.
@Patricia Matthews #214:
I think you hit one of the nails on the head with Gen X. We weren’t given much to start with (as a generality) and the Boomer’s been hoarding it for themselves, when it would have been useful to us to start things with in the younger years of trying to get established. Mid-life, still trying to get established and the raises we get can’t keep pace with the inflation. And now those Boomer bulldozers are coming, after we seen their bulldozers tear down so many coves and groves of trees where we used to play with feral ferocity to put in suburbs that are now falling into disrepair.
Anyways, well said.
@Bogatyr
Bogatyr, long time no see! Didn’t you once have a “Barddas” website? I loved reading your articles! Looking forward to your book, and if you still have your website backed up somewhere, I’d love to read it again.
– Brigyn
Hi JMG and all the rest of you,
The counter culture is fragmented, downtrodden, disgraced and ignored, while the polarized black and white thinking of the class war pushes the boundaries back and forth, but surely good or bad., and splitting is what a polarizing person does best, and, it seems, the TDS folk respond to their lack of status with a loud voice. Back and forth, while out here in the colonies we mark the summers with the number of days over a hundred, or the days without rain, or when the new frontier will allow the very rich homestead acres of hot land and who will be the fall guy? At the same time, DOGE gave the killers a raise. Nobody liked the counterculture, so it was killed and sold off to low bidders, I hid in a Psych ward after graduating from the disabled disabilities of changing diapers on zombied men. In the psych unit, a DD woman I knew, managed to split the staff into two factions, due to her self -injurious behavior, (I was one of the bad staff). I didn’t work during the week of the patient started biting herself on her arm, creating bleeding sores, and when I returned, the patient was wearing plastic tubes on her arms and had a sitter, 24 hours a day. It took a month to diffuse the crisis to where she could be sent back to the local institution, a state run “home” for DD folk that could not live in the group homes provided by grants during the first deinstitution push. The mentally ill did not get group homes in their funding, when the institutions closed, at the start of the homeless class in the 1980’s. Luckily, I spent quality time as a gravedigger, cowboy, ditchdigger, and irrigator, so I know my place well. I need to go outside and breathe my compost pile, and hope our collective gut biome knows a way out of the “stable genius as manure spreader” thinking. Dusting off old plans for killing old cultures seems to be stabbing at my memory banks. Something about sinking an airport, but I could be wrong. I watch the sere wind blow the cottonwood seeeds in search of water and my trees ask for water as well, because in 45 years we moved a couple of climate zones. I think the old Fremont and Ancient Puebloans, learned how to live on less, less food for less of them. Not caring for the land, or pretending that economics in financial, and not grounded, so to speak, in the land seems to make conservatives richer in money and poorer in values of nature.. I haven’t looked at the bombing recently, but I don’t see a streaming across the sky, so we haven’t ushered in the end of the human age just yet, but isn’t that what one big set of the population wants all of us pagans to experience? It is so confusing to think that a man, projecting a shadow is our guiding light to newfound greatness overflowing with riches and we can reach those heights if we buy a new bible or a phone in His likeness, and only he knows the way to go. We can all laugh at others when their rank and place is shattered. What happens when we all go down a number of notches on the totem pole. If you are so far out of step that you didn’t notice or care about your status, you too can be an outlyier to a fringe group, testing the border line of the counter culture.
Ever-intriguing Archdruid, this article on Status Panic is quite engaging; thank you for your ongoing contributions. But due at least partially to a gift my wonderful wife gave me, a book entitled “Dignity” by Chris Arnade, I’m pondering with dark gloom the status collapse that’s come crashing down on what Arnade labels “back row America.” Many of the same themes are present in JD Vance’s “Hillbilly Elegy”, namely that there is a largish swath of folks who were left behind by the outsourcing and offshoring waves which swept across our country, leaving adrift folks who in earlier times had jobs at steelmills, furniture factories, and clothing manufacturers. Now, as Arnade and Vance document, there are lots of people in the USA that even if the Trump admin succeeds in bringing back high-paying jobs for smart eager folks will STILL be left out in the bleak misery of drug addiction, broken families, criminal records, and shattered health.
Arnade describes how Gary, Indiana, lost its industries and how when that occurred many people moved out but some stayed behind as the city became, eventually, a hellhole. I ask myself: why continue to stand on the tracks as you hear the ever-louder blasts of Q (long-long-short-long) bearing down on you? Sadly, here in California there are ongoing incidents of folks standing on train tracks, just as there are continuing incidents of ”wrong-way” drivers on freeways, both seemingly motivated by a desire to achieve a swift end to their existence.
A taboo subject is the role ‘intelligence’ plays in the whole epic, both that of the status-dwindling laptoppers and the drug-addicted back-row folks. IQ of course is only one way of measuring, but it seems clear that we are seeing, as Larry Niven coined many years ago, “Evolution In Action”, pruning out less-adaptable and less-bright folks from both the front row AND the back row. Perhaps a future essay could be targeted towards how to lessen the anguish of what appears to be an inescapable avalanche of misery, particularly amongst those at the bottom of the social scale.
Best regards as always.
Great post and many interesting comments.
One additional thing that occurred to me as I was reading was that a lot of the elite behavior we’re seeing, in addition to being about status panic, also seems weirdly recycled, like people are trying to recreate past “victories”.
Trump and everyone else I hate is “literally Hitler”, and I’m a member of the “Resistance” seems like they want to re-enact the winning of WW2. The more recent “No Kings” nonsense feels like a lame attempt at channeling the American Revolution. All the useless street protests in recent decades feel like an attempt to re-enact 1960s Civil Right protests (which back then actually had an impact). Trans rights – up to including the “right” to medically alter confused and vulnerable minors – seem like a stand-in for past civil rights movements, including gay rights. And the Great Virus Panic felt in part like an attempt to relive the elimination of smallpox. Etc. The “cancer moonshot” didn’t quite take off (pun intended), but again, there’s that desire to reenact a mythical past.
Maybe I’m imagining it, but to me it seems like the failing, falling laptop class is trying to play-act past victories like a washed-up sports star trying to relive his glory days. It’s both sad and a bit scary.
Funny, there is one more thing that comes to mind…
There is a phrase which professional managerial progressives I know, in salaried positions, often expressly aimed at managing (but never at solving) various types of oppression, have often used to dismiss the concerns (and indeed, the oppression) of the downwardly mobile white working classes – especially during the globalist job-outsourcing years that President Clinton presided over.
And now I can clearly see how this phrase was:
1) providing an excellent description of status panic
2) proferring the claim that status panic is not the same as “real” oppression, and therefore cannot *really* hurt
The phrase? “when you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
The mote one easily sees in the eye of another, and all that.
The issue of whether status is biological or social strike me as similar to the question of whether morality is objective or subjective — it has aspects of both because it’s primarily about the ways in which particular things relate to other particular things. And arguably which side dominates varies with the complexity of the society in both cases — the closer you live to the basic realities of life the more the biological/objective side dominates, because that’s what defines the environment you have to act in, whereas the more complex your society becomes, the more society becomes the defining force for both concerns.
As an example: natural law, if there is such a thing, obviously has nothing directly to say on which side of the road you should drive on, but getting that particular detail right is of great concern to anyone who happens to be on the road with you! Similarly, biology has nothing to say about where computer programmers should end up in your civilization’s social hierarchy, but once that’s been more-or-less settled it’s a matter of great concern to a lot of people — both the programmers and those who depend on their work.
>Culture is born on the fringes, in grubby little subcultures everyone despises
I can just see it – 100 years from now.
My Little Ponyyyyy
Friendship is Maaagic
@Patrick:
“Progressivism is a cult, and to reject TDS, the average progressive not only has to admit to themselves that they fell for lies, but become isolated from their social circle. The awakened progressive would get ostrachized by their “tolerant”, “loving” cult if she talks about her change of views, or she would get tired of living a double life and remove herself from those people.”
That describes what I’m experiencing from the people in my life. I used to be left wing, but I stopped being so the past few years, just at the time everyone around me has been doubling down on stereotypically woke stuff. I don’t want to get cancelled by everyone, so I’ve gone quieter and quieter on the subject of politics while changing my voting habits dramatically.
Okay, we know that particular professions rise and fall in status. Time was when mainline clergy were respected pillars of the community. But let’s think of something less culture-bound, like business ability. Even if some of the traits that make somebody good at business are biological / innate, I think JMG’s point is that not every society accords equal standing to its commercial class. I have read that China in particular viewed commerce with suspicion, although they obviously had traders, and it is not clear to me what practical difference this disapproval ever made. Perhaps the point is that it was unthinkable for a member of this class to rise to a position of government power, as Trump did. Anyway, this line of thought suggests that the assignment of status is quite arbitrary, even if the qualities that make one a good member of a particular class or profession are to some extent biological / innate (as I assume is true of commerce).
On the other hand, one might suppose sheer charisma / dominance (being an “alpha,” as the kids say) to be biological. I recall it being said of some bygone US politician, that he could have been dropped naked over the Soviet Union, and in a short time he would have risen to become a member of the Central Committee, or some such. (Perhaps someone else will remember who this politician was; I’m finding this hard to google.) This suggests that status is not arbitrary after all, but that the same sort of people will tend to acquire it in any society.
There is lots of good stuff to meditate on while I was in the raspberry patch. Two days ago I got 3/4 of a pail. Today, 3 1/2 pails. Who threw the switch?
I think there is considerable merit in the argument somewhere above that the importance of biological features in determining status decreases with the complexity of society. In a tribal or even feudal society a Dwayne Johnson sized man has instant status based on nothing more than his size and strength. In the modern world he also has to be funny and tolerably bright.
I can think of a couple of example from my high-school years. Big bruisers, no matter how valuable to the Coach still had to behave themselves. Coach could only cover for so much.
Personally I’ve caused multiple cases of confusion when PMC types have trouble grasping that I went from redneck to PH.D. in one generation. In subtle ways I don’t really grasp I’m not sending the correct PMC class signals. I get along fine with the operators and mechanics and I don’t think it’s solely because I can talk shop. It’s not how I dress because that is determined by OSHA.
@slithy, @dobbs,@andy, thanks feedback on the collective noun for Karens.
I like the idea of “Karen” as gender neutral. Otherwise we will need a blanket term for a mixed gender group.
Now we need a vote on it and then we need to talk to the manager to make it mandatory.
Jo, many years ago I worked in health care as a certified nurses aide — laptops weren’t available in those days but administrative bloat was certainly hitting its stride. All of which is to say, yes, I’d like to see a lot fewer electron pushers and a lot more people actually taking care of patients.
TylerA, glad to hear it. I’ve encountered some male Karens, though many more female ones. As for upward mobility, it’s important not to fall into the trap of thinking that status is assigned primarily to race-and-gender categories. There are still plenty of white men who grew up poor and rose into the wealthier classes, for example.
Siliconguy, yep. The quote by Marcus is worth remembering.
Patricia M, interesting. Thanks for this.
Clay, that’s a fascinating question. The issue here is that the legal system has become so hopelessly convoluted that lawyers these days are a necessity; it’s possible that the system will be pruned to make them avoidable, but it’s very rare for that to happen in a late civilization like ours — far more often, the legal code remains fixed in place until it’s simply ignored and forgotten.
Dennis, I knew a few old men of similar attitudes back in the day.
Ron, thanks for this. Yes, exactly.
Birgit, you’re welcome. I didn’t mean the phrase in the medical sense, but yeah, it works.
Jdm, a lot of what’s making this time so difficult is exactly that the whole totem pole is sinking fast as the US loses its place as global hegemon. Every sector of the population is scrambling around trying to make sure that everyone else takes the biggest share of the inevitable losses; for the last forty years, the professional/managerial caste saw to it that they got off as lightly as possible, and now they’re screeching as their turn has come up. Me, I’m way out on the fringes, ignored and despised by all the influential, and I couldn’t be happier. It’s not a bad place to be, well out of the way of the fighting.
Bryan, the process of decline and fall is always difficult, and yeah, those who aren’t nimble enough to get out of the way are in deep trouble. I wish I could suggest some way to resolve that, but I know of none. It’s like getting old and dying — it happens, and while you can have some influence over some of the downsides, you can’t stop it and you can’t guarantee any given outcome.
El, an excellent point. I need to do a post, and soon, about exactly that recycling of the past.
Scotlyn, too funny, in a bleak sort of way. I’ll keep that phrase in mind.
Slithy, that strikes me as a reasonable analysis.
Other Owen, I’ve known enough Bronies to have a sick horrified feeling that you may be right.
Ambrose, oh, it goes further than that. Business acumen is useless among hunter-gatherers, among whom the economy is so simple that there’s no social value given to cleverness in exchange. In most tribal societies, in fact, there are social mechanisms to disperse wealth as fast as possible! In the same way, habits that are attractive and charismatic in American society are seen as pushy and arrogant in Japanese society; your naked politician very likely wouldn’t have gotten far in the Soviet Union, which had the very different Russian concept of charisma.
Siliconguy, exactly — you’re still culturally working class and give off all the right signals in that setting.
DropBear, well, I’m the manager here, and I’m going to arbitrarily rule — showing just a hint of baboon teeth — that yes, the term “Karen” is gender neutral on this blog.
Well, here I go again. It seems that today James Howard Kunstler implicitly endorsed genetics as a source of status, in spite of what Stephen Jay Gould might have written in the past on that topic. Here’s Mr. Kunstler in today’s blog post: “It’s true enough, for such a low percentage of the US population, Jews seem to run an awful lot of things here: Wall Street firms, Ivy League universities, medical research, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, Broadway, the news media. How to account for that? Well. . . it is said that in the shtetls of old Europe, the richest fathers married off their daughters to the smartest young men in the village. Hence, their offspring sailed into Ellis Island with a certain advantage. It could be as simple as that. What else might it be? Luciferian magic, some seem to think.”
I doubt that JHK takes Luciferian magic seriously, but of course I could be wrong.
The English-speaking class you describe is a textbook example of what he called an “intelligentsia,” a manufactured native class that adopts the manners, ideas, and language of the colonizing overlords as a way to give themselves heightened status at the expense of the rest of the native population.
@JMG: Not disputing whether Toynbee used ‘intelligentsia” in this way (I haven’t read him) but it’s a word with wide application. I wonder whether ‘comprador class’ might be a better fit for the role you’re describing here?
@Brigyn: Thank you. Yes, the Barddas blog was mine. Some of the material will be incorporated in the new book, but the book has a somewhat different focus. Following our host’s example, the first draft is being published in snippets, in my case on Substack.
@Kyle: many thanks once more for the book recommendation. I bought a Kindle version, and the first chapter on Hermes both blew my mind and totally reframed my understanding of my own life. Can’t give much higher praise than that.
Re states withholding Federal funds: So far as I can tell there is no practical means for a state to do this. The state governments are not charged with collecting federal taxes and forwarding the money to Washington as would have been the case with the provinces of some empires. Individual income tax and social security taxes are collected by the employer in the form of payroll withholding and sent directly to the nearest IRS district. What isn’t covered by withholding is paid directly by the taxpayer either quarterly or at the end of the tax year. From IRS district offices the money goes to Washington. Businesses likewise pay directly, either by check or electronic transfer. There is no mule train of gold or sacks of cash on a mail train to seize and drag back to the state capitals. California’s Governor Newsom is just throwing a hissy fit over Trump’s seizing control of the National Guard.
@siliconguy #184: I will gladly admit you are much deeper into Jane Austen’s world than I am! In my defence, I had replied to a definition of “skills panic [as] the fear of having mastered a set of skills that are no longer as monetizeable as they once were”. I really don’t think Austen’s protagonists had that kind of fear. Once a woman had acquired a good husband, or a man had managed to inherit from a rich aunt, the worst was over.
Having to update one’s resumé in order to keep or improve on a high-status job seems like a very 21st century anxiety.
As for Kunstler’s observations about the success of the Jews as a group, I always took it as a result of valuing education. Where I grew up being smart was not considered all that good. Men were supposed to be big, strong, and not too bright. The papermill and sheet metal works that were the non-agricultural employers wanted muscle. A subset of the women could be bookish, but most of them were housewives and clerks. The smarter people kept their heads down. Yeah, it was a toxic environment which is why I never went back.
As for how the taxes get collected, I send a check for my estimated taxes to Cincinnati every quarter. When I was working my employer sent the withholding directly to the IRS, but I don’t know how often, but it was at least quarterly. There is no way for a governor to get into the stream. There might be some excise taxes the states collect on behalf of the federal government, but that’s peanuts.
On biology vs. society determining hierarchy:
I’m sure that JMG stated his position the way he did because some readers would mistake the term “biology” for a euphenism for race. The wording might be somewhat deceptive, because society ultimately determines hierarchy, even in a hypothetical one where the correlation between the social construction of status and biological fitness is 1.0!
About the Tsar: that line of his would have been delivered in French, the language of the Russian court. They were so disconnected from the Russian peasantry that they didn’t even speak the same language.
About status: one good cure for self-importance is to own chickens. I have a degree and a well-paying PMC job, but my laying hens don’t care that I want them to stay on my side of the fence. I’m being outdone by something with a brain the size of a walnut because the chicken has a single focus of will, and I have other things to do.
>I’ve known enough Bronies
How, where, when? Some things are better left unknown. I don’t need to know, I don’t want to know. The thought of an adequate amount of bronies for any purpose sends a shiver down my spine.
I’ve often thought that new fashion will probably come from video game models, as that is what the kids think constitutes fancy dress. Things are going to look very different than the current arrangements whatever happens.
“But due at least partially to a gift my wonderful wife gave me, a book entitled “Dignity” by Chris Arnade, I’m pondering with dark gloom the status collapse that’s come crashing down on what Arnade labels “back row America.” Many of the same themes are present in JD Vance’s “Hillbilly Elegy”, namely that there is a largish swath of folks who were left behind by the outsourcing and offshoring waves which swept across our country, leaving adrift folks who in earlier times had jobs at steelmills, furniture factories, and clothing manufacturers. ”
I would also recommend Heartland by Sarah Smarsh.
Much like Vance’s book but she loves her people warts and all.
Aldarion,
True but since the topic was the “laptop class” which is either “middle class” or “upper middle class” for income and “upper lower class” or “lower middle class” for culture/character so they aren’t far enough removed from “skills panic” (maybe one generation removed at most) and still fear poverty from skills monetization. Most of them know jobs or worked jobs in which incomes simply don’t scale because the work (which necessitates a certain skill set) is singular task, singular customer, and multiple hours for completion.
Timely topic, the first thing in the news this morning.
“Intel is outsourcing much of its marketing work to Accenture”
“The company said it believes Accenture, using artificial intelligence, will do a better job connecting with customers. It says it will tell most marketing employees by July 11 whether it plans to lay them off. “The transition of our marketing and operations functions will result in significant changes to team structures, including potential headcount reductions, with only lean teams remaining,” Intel told employees in a notice describing its plans. The Oregonian/OregonLive reviewed a copy of the material.
Intel declined to say how many workers will lose their jobs or how many work in its marketing organization, which employs people at sites around the globe, including in Oregon. But it acknowledged its relationship with Accenture in a statement to The Oregonian/OregonLive. “As we announced earlier this year, we are taking steps to become a leaner, faster and more efficient company,”
I suppose when the Revolution comes there will be no need to stand the marketing division against the wall. Just cut the power and use a trackhoe to rip up the building and cart the server racks to recycling.
Speaking of status panic, too many lies have caught up with the supposed elite.
“More than half (54%) of people get news from networks like Facebook, X and YouTube – overtaking TV (50%) and news sites and apps (48%), according to the Reuters Institute.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93lzyxkklpo
And RFK wants to go for the profit margin, the drug ads.
“Almost 50% of those drug ads were split across news broadcasters, including MSNBC, CBS News, CNN and Fox News, according to a December report from research firm eMarketer.”
@Bogatyr, don’t think so. I’m from Singapore, where a real “comprador” class existed, as it still does throughout this whole region to some extent. Compradors, from the Wikipedia article and from the history of Southeast Asia, are mostly merchants/businessmen with little interest in intellectual debate and discussion.
I find Toynbee’s definition of the intelligentsia quite coherent and valid as a concept. It can apply to e.g. Brahmins in India, the Chinese imperial officials, US government officials, people who read too much woke literature and try to spread it around the world etc. The “colonial” culture might be internal, external, historical, contemporary or whatever, but the common thread is that they all involve intellectuals who claim some authority based on their abstract body of knowledge.
#50 I shouldn’t think that the USA’s military expenditure was ever an altruistic effort to defend the NATO members of Europe, it was only ever for America’s own interests, or rather for the interest of America’s military industrial complex, there should be no illusions that it is expenditure in Europe’s interest that may be cut by Trump’s administration.
For Arnold Toynbee, the way I think he was using the term intelligentsia is that it is a substitute for a middle class in societies that don’t have an organically grown middle class.
I must say that once again, I both agree with the criticisms laid out, but fail to see how the actions of this administration are viewed as a remedy. Their proposed budget expands the debt greatly, sure cutting laptops can be good but then spending millions on military parades and deportations?
Genuinely, how are we justifying masked, unmarked men to scoop people off the street, this action under a left admin would have every 2a nutjob shooting up any government official. Please please deploy your wit, analysis and insight to the side your defending and we can perhaps move forward.
Phutatorius, by all means ask Jim what he meant by that. He’s Jewish, of course, and I’ve heard similar claims from other Jewish intellectuals.
Bogatyr, maybe so, but I’m specifically referencing the concept Toynbee developed at great length in his writing, and “intelligentsia” is the label he used for it.
Rita, that’s also a good point. The federal government has had various good reasons down through the years to put barriers in place to keep state governments from getting their grubby hands on federal funds and perquisites.
Patrick, exactly. I wanted to fend off two groups of people who would make that equation: first, people on the left, who always like to assail their opponents by accusing them of racism, and second, actual racists, who are just as reliably looking for anything they can use to bolster their ideologies.
Kfish, ha! You’re right, of course, but prescribing chickens as a cure for self-importance strikes me as irrepressibly funny.
Other Owen, prepare to have your sanity blasted by the awful truth! I had several of them (a prance of Bronies, perhaps?) at one point discussing magic with me on blog posts; they wanted my advice on how to invoke Princess Celestia as a goddess.
Siliconguy, stay tuned for Intel’s advertising to suddenly show chimpanzees shaking maracas above a slogan like “Trees, you fool — ice cream has no bones!”
Kyle, it fascinates me that so many people on your side of things see what I’m doing as defending one side, when I’m simply trying to explain what I see happening. Still, until the left gets over its bad habit of trying to shove current affairs into a straitjacket defined by JRR Tolkien — you know, leftists are the Good People, its opponents are Sauron incarnate, and of course Good must always triumph over Evil — that’s doubtless going to be endlessly repeated.
I look forward to a JMG post on the recycling of the past; I feel like I see it everywhere.
In addition to the left’s LARP-ing of past battles, pop culture just keeps “rebooting” old content. And of course, Trump won on making America great AGAIN, which is more seeking of the idealized past. There is definitely something going on there, and I suspect it’s related to the changing status hierarchy.
At the same time, we’re seeing very little active celebration/remembrance of the actual past. The silence around the 250th anniversary of the American Revolution has been deafening, at least compared to 1976. Trump’s team didn’t audit the bloated pentagon, but the IMLS – a tiny organization that, among other things, gave modest grants to museums and libraries for archives and other preservation projects – was gutted, despite having a total budget that was a drop in the bucket of government spending. Why prioritize cracking down THERE, in such a target-rich environment?
John Michael,
Glad you’re back safe and sound! I wonder if that Mena Dhu Stout is available here in the States…?
In your response to Edward, you state “As for Kennedy, he’s trying to prune the system of its more obvious abuses so that some form of it can survive…” Can you cite anything out there that would make that apparent?
Immediately following that, “…the people who insist he’s solely destructive want to maintain the current grift unchanged…” I don’t think that statement is correct. For context, RFK Jr. used to be this guy (boldly copied from an article : https://slate.com/technology/2023/07/robert-f-kennedy-jr-rfk-covid-conspiracy-history.html )
“For decades, he was a superstar environmental lawyer who demanded that Americans should accept and act on the scientific consensus that climate change is real. He specialized in cases in which corporations had hidden the environmental or health costs of their products. His legal work against corporations that dump toxic chemicals in water, waste dumps, and food saved thousands of people from disabling diseases or death. He embraced the science that revealed this and attacked the superficially exculpatory science used by the companies to defend themselves. “That’s what I do for a living,” he told an interviewer. “I litigate scientific issues.”
The same article (and others; this one just conveniently has both of my points in one place) goes on to discuss Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent article in The Lancet, which was one of the pivotal parts of the unfolding of vaccine hysteria since 2000, and RFK’s change. Of course, RFK IS a litigator, NOT a person trained in any medical field, mainstream or alternative.
Anyhow, just because I think, based on evidence, that he’s a hack, that doesn’t mean that I want to “…maintain the current grift unchanged.” Hell no. Of course, I do work with senior citizens and have a good deal of exposure to doctors and also research scientists in the medical field (mainly BCM Houston), and the majority of THEM (that I know) have grown to despise the way our medical system is being run by the insurance conmen companies and Big Pharma. In fact, I would argue that the people who want the grift to continue are the ones who directly benefit the most from the way the system is set up, so people like Brian Thompson and his ilk. THEY are the ones who have flooded politics with the bribe money the donations and lobbying for their interests (and against the hoi polloi).
Just my two cents.
Johnny B
JMG: “It’s the behavioural, cognitive, and emotional reactions that individuals have to the places assigned them by society that are hardwired into their nervous systems.”
Occult practices and exercises seem tightly focused on what might, from a kind of tech perspective, be called bio-hacking – re-coding the core operating system using simple yet profound hacks and, if a glimpse of intuition occurs, that might be called ‘flashing the BIOS’, thus changing the legacy [animal] code to something more useful.
I’m not sure it works that well as a metaphor because in my experience, it’s more of a case of gradually re-writing the OS and BIOS rather than a ‘one and done’.
As for “the alpha baboon baring his fangs”, this still seems pertinent: “It is only when a mosquito lands on a man’s testicles that he learns to curb his innate tendency towards violence”; but then things like mastering the opposites seems like an occult hack to give balance to the multitude of personalities we each potentially harbour. Couple things like that with other practices and there is potential and hope.
It’s a bit off topic for this post so maybe talk more on the open post, but meditating in the midden (on what I said at #25) it occurred to me that one of the problem for female/male communication is that whilst there may be overlap like a Venn diagram, the fundamental wiring means men and women are left trying to understand what could effectively be ‘alien’ wiring and response systems that have been honed and hardwired by millions and millions of years of development – the deep lizard brain stuff. Not as simple as the old Mars and Venus stereotypes that lack in imagination/nuance; and while gender goes with with social hierarchies because both of those things are constructs rather than realities, the deep wiring is inevitably tied in with biology and deep rooted survival responses of our animal bodies.
In our responses we can have choice, but the fundamental baselines are driven by/coded by the polarities of biology.
JMG: “What makes this fascinating to me is that the women who behave this way aren’t normally belligerent. Quite the contrary, the ones I’ve met personally have one and all turned out to be pleasant, intelligent, sweet-tempered people.”
I know you don’t do films, but if you did, I would refer you to Shogun Assassin when the best male ninja in Japan meets ‘the pleasant, intelligent and sweet-natured’ female ninjas… let’s just say that the guy gets to shed body parts at an alarming rate.
‘Sweet’ is an expectation that has no reason to always or ever be the case – threaten a female’s young like a male lion does and the female lion will sweetly disabuse the male of his expectations.
@patrick #238: Biological fitness means “fit for the environment at hand”. “Survival of the fittest” does not mean “survival of the strongest”, not even for non-human species. What we have been discussing is exactly the fact that the environment humans live in is, to a considerable degree, defined by humans collectively.
This is similar to the fact that “heritability” is always defined for a specific population. It is the part of variation that is not due to environmental or otherwise non-genetic differences. A trait like height or IQ might theoretically be 100% heritable in some population (where all individuals are given the exact same opportunities to thrive) and much less heritable in another population (where individuals have markedly different opportunities to thrive). There is no abstract biological baseline to say that some trait is X% heritable in general.
Ugh.
In my last paragraph above, “conmen” and “the bribe money” were supposed to be marked with strikethroughs. Ah, technology (actually, user error). It doesn’t paste-in, does it?
Johnny B
@JMG (#247, responding to Kyle):
I’ve experienced the same thing fairly often, and am as puzzled by it as you are. So many people to whom I have described the future as I see it happening will simply assume that I’m describing the future I want to have happening.
And my attempts to set the record straight are often met with sheer baffled incomprehension, as if they can’t even imagine that anyone could ever expect a future that goes against their wishes and desires. Or they suppose I’m some sort of traitor to whatever their cause might be simply for thinking that their cause might possibly fail.
Could this be a measure of how influential New Thought philosophy (“Mind over matter”) has become: these days? Or is it just how out of touch with the very concept of a hard reality such folk have become?
Going a bit on a tangent here, but still (I think) connected to the triply repeated warning from JMG’s essay:
In 2008, the group I was working in, which was supervised by a now-Nobel Laureate, had a long, heated and ultimately fruitless discussion on how to distinguish between the genetical mechanisms that we consider “selection” and the others we consider “neutral” or “drift”. We wanted a way to automatically sift the changes that happened on the human lineage after the human vs. chimp split (or the modern human vs. Neanderthal almost-split) and retain only those that gave our ancestors some advantage (and possibly some human-specific trait). In a bottleneck (when the number of individuals in a species has become very low) some quirks in the DNA of the survivors will spread through the whole surviving population even if they are neutral, and we wanted to sift those out and retain only the ones that increased “fitness”.
Geneticists use a number of metrics to identify such “positively selected” changes, but each of those metrics has its deficiencies when looking at certain periods of time (in the case of humans, tens of thousands vs. millions of years). I am not a geneticist myself, but I understood that one problem with some of these metrics is that they are foiled by mechanisms at work in DNA that will favour certain nucleotides under certain conditions, regardless of the effect of such changes on survival.
We thought we could start with a simple definition of “fitness” and then think about how to separate the genes that increased fitness from those that simply surfed to success. It turned out we couldn’t. If individuals with a certain characteristic take over the population, that is “fitness”, whether we think the change is for the better or not. The only exception we could think of were those cases where one can measure engineering characteristics like aerodynamic drag and determine if a genetic change increases or decreases drag. Unfortunately, human are optimized (if at all) for traits that are less amenable to an engineering approach.
We gave up before we even started thinking about humans changing the environment and thereby influencing which other humans will have more offspring, which is JMG’s point here. Among the participants in that discussion were people who are now professors at prestigious universities and directors of research institutes. I hope they still remember that lesson.
@ Johnny B
“Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent article in The Lancet, which was one of the pivotal parts of the unfolding of vaccine hysteria since 2000.”
I challenge you to read said article – yes, despite its retracted status, you can still read it in full – and explain exactly how you feel THIS paper could plausibly be credited with being “one of the pivotal parts of the unfolding of vaccine hysteria since 2000.”
In this paper you will find this “vaccine hysterical” statement:
“We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue. If there is a causal link between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and this syndrome, a rising incidence might be anticipated after the introduction of this vaccine in the UK in 1988. Published evidence is inadequate to show whether there is a change in incidence22 or a link with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine.
“A genetic predisposition to autistic-spectrum disorders is suggested by over-representation in boys and a greater concordance rate in monozygotic than in dizygotic twins. In the context of susceptibility to infection, a genetic association with autism, linked to a null allele of the complement (C) 4B gene located in the class III region of the major-histocompatibility complex, has been recorded by Warren and colleagues. C4B-gene products are crucial for the activation of the complement pathway and protection against infection: individuals inheriting one or two C4B null alleles may not handle certain viruses appropriately, possibly including attenuated strains.”
For me the POWER attributed to this nothing-burger paper has become a myth that makes no sense to me whatsoever. The paper was published in 1998. It did not make waves in mainstream media, nor in alternative media, and featured on no one’s radar. My children were born in 1993 and 1996, and the question of whether to follow the vaccination schedule or to delay the vaccines and get them administered singly was already much discussed among the women bearing children in my cohort. Because of the cautions urged by the “crunchy” types I hung out with (we mostly discussed natural childbirth and breastfeeding and such), I myself asked our doctor to space out the vaccinations, and not administer them until much later than the schedule recommended, and am thankful that she was amenable. Years later, after the vigourous campaign carried out by a journalist called Brian Deer, I found out that we crunchy mums had been entirely misled and made “hysterical” by a scientific paper none of us had ever heard of, published long after any of us had been passionately researching and discussing the subject.
Wakefield has been made the anti-Christ of the pro-vaccine movement, and this story makes no sense.
Oops – link that goes with my above comment –
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)11096-0/fulltext
Yo, Mr. Greer, et all: I recently read a couple of books, that pertain to the subject at hand.
“Status and Culture: How Our Desire for Social Rank Creates Taste, Identity, Art, Fashion, and Constant Change.” (Marx, 2022.) A synopsis from our library catalog …
“An examination of how individuals strive for social status and how this creates our culture as a whole. Contrary to belief, status signaling isn’t just the province of the immature or insecure but a fundamental human need to secure social standing. It drives our behavior, forms our tastes, determines what we buy, and ultimately shapes who we are. It’s what’s behind ‘cool’ and what drives fashion, music, food, sports, slang, travel, hairstyles, and dog breeds–and even the outsize influence of unpopular things with the ‘right’ audience. In Status and Culture, W. David Marx weaves together history, psychology, sociology, anthropology, economics, philosophy, linguistics, semiotics, cultural theory, literary theory, art history, media studies, and neuroscience to reveal for the first time the inner workings of status. While there have been some explorations in the past of how status needs affect our individual behavior, Status and Culture seeks to go one step deeper and link the behavior of individuals to the formation of our broader culture. Marx examines three fundamental questions: Why do individuals cluster around arbitrary behaviors and take deep meaning from them? How do distinct styles, conventions, and sensibilities emerge? Why do we change behaviors over time and why do some behaviors stick around? Answering these long-standing mysteries then provides us with new perspectives for understanding the ephemeral and often baffling nature of internet culture. Status and Culture is a book that will appeal to business people, students, aspiring artists, and anyone who has ever wondered why things become popular or why they often feel pressured to go against their personal tastes. The reader will gain an understanding of the general rules that can be applied to everyday life and feel empowered by better appreciating the effect of social influence on their choices”–
Also of interest, and another good read, “Class: A Guide Through the American Status System.” (Fussell, 2015.)
Oh, I’ve been up and down the ol’ status and class ladder, many a time. The first time, I was in my early 20’s in Seattle (circa 1970), and the assistant director of a small social service agency. (Woozier! I even had my own secretary!) 🙂 Next thing I know, I’m tending bar, waiting tables and slinging hash not far off Skid Row. Far, far more interesting than my previous incarnation. But, you sure find out fast, who your friends are. Lew
@228
I am glad I don’t live or work in a blue area. I just drifted away from leftist internet groups. I think I will wait for a political realignment before I decide which political party to support…if the USA doesn’t fall to Spenglerian Caesarism in the coming years.
For Kyle @ 246
You made me realize that in all the yelling about the deficit I hadn’t heard anything on the Democratic solution to it with the sole exception of Warren’s wealth tax (which conveniently cuts in just above her personal net worth).
I went looking and found this, “https://www.everythingpolicy.org/policy-briefs/deficit-reduction-democrats”
“There is no official Democratic Party position on deficit reduction, either by the national organization or the Democratic Caucuses in the House and Senate.”
That likely reflects their inner turmoil as the oligarch wing fights with the labor wing and the pro-Israel wing fights with the pro-Palestinian wing, etc.
I was saving this for next week, but scroll about halfway down to ‘Detailed US Federal Spending Breakdown’ and see where you would cut $1.7 trillion in spending. Alternatively you could raise taxes $10,000 on every one of the 170 million working people. You can even try the wealth tax, but any wealth you collect this year is not available for collection next year. The government doesn’t take trade goods either, it’s USD only.
If social status is arbitrary and contingent rather than fixed and innate, I wonder whether the same is true of social laws–not just which side of the road to drive on, but things like whether or when it is okay to kill people. Much of our morality presumes our ethical principles to be eternal verities, when they obviously vary from culture to culture (as well as from species to species, person to person, etc.) Our religions (or some of them, anyway) are premised on the notion that these are hard-wired into the cosmos somehow–that God, or perhaps karma, will punish us for certain acts–or to put it another way, that these acts are inherently wicked and merit / inevitably evoke a certain cosmic response. A reincarnation believer finds it natural to suppose that the murderer will eventually reap what he sows, but would be startled at the suggestion that the fish-eater (let us say) might be similarly cursed, and that you and I may have been transgressing laws that never even occurred to us. Sure, it is possible to tinker with the system to allow mitigating factors to be considered (e.g. unbelief on the part of the heathen who have never heard of Christ may be excused), but we still end up wondering whether meat-eating or wife-beating are inherently bad (that is, inevitably arouse a like reaction from the cosmos), or only determined by social convention, or even personal opinion. Anyway, the whole idea of karma tends to break down under this kind of questioning.
For that matter, if there special about our betters in the social hierarchy, then maybe there is nothing special about the gods, either, and they are a kind of laptop class.
*for that last line, read “if there is nothing special about our betters in the social hierarchy”
JMG: “they wanted my advice on how to invoke Princess Celestia as a goddess”
MLP:FIM can be read as a kind of Bildungsroman depicting the progress of Twilight Sparkle in her magical / royal apprenticeship. Princess Celestia is her mother / mentor, the Ancient One to her Dr. Strange. (Equestria, the fantasy setting of the show, is a principality ruled by princesses–not queens, because little girls like princesses better than queens, who are often evil in the cartoons.) “Twiley” communicates with her (they live in different places) by letter, which her dragon friend Spike burns / transports in a puff of smoke. Her episodic lessons center on friendship, which is a kind of magic.
I understand that tulpamancy–the deliberate creation of “thought forms”, a Theosophical notion mistakenly thought to be Tibetan–is often practiced by Bronies, who wish to, ah, consummate their relationships with the objects of their degenerate desire. You may remember that moment ten years ago when (best headline ever, and a symbol of our times:) “The Internet finally reaches its apex as man marrying My Little Pony character writes angry email to erotic pony artist”
https://www.avclub.com/the-internet-finally-reaches-its-apex-as-man-marrying-m-1798237210
El,
You’re right that there is a lot of recycling of the past, on all political sides and in most creative pursuits. Maybe our culture has run through most of the truly good ideas it can easily come up with, and thats part of the reason for the constant rehashing?
An excellent essay JMG. I see now why Nellie, I call him Nellie because: Nellie the Elephant packed her [his] trunk ,and said goodbye to the circus, off she [he] went with a trumpety-trump, trump, trump, trump. Anyways I can now see why Nellie wants his Big Beautiful Bill now, as what do it’s astronomical costs/debts matter, when preparing the way for a Big Beautiful Default, and who’s knows it maybe that America’s To Big To Fail, and maybe even lead to a painful but necessary great global simplification🤔
Phutatorius @ 233 Kunstler has been carrying water for Israel for decades now. Here is more from his latest:
“So now, obviously, Israel is engaged in trying to beat the crap out of Iran in order to persuade them to discontinue that country’s quest for deliverable nukes. Every other means of persuasion has failed, you understand,”
Never mind that successive intelligence estimates have said Iran is doing no such thing. Never mind that the DNI herself testified that Iran was doing no such thing. Guess when non-Jewish females testify under oath, it doesn’t count. Kunstler knows better than the DNI on account of his genetic superiority.
I smelled panic throughout Kunstler’s screed. The American public is, finally, turning against Israel and against yet more overseas wars. It is Kunstler, not us, who seems not to be able to distinguish between Israel and worldwide Jewry.
Oh, and I can’t believe I forgot this until now, because it stands right in front of me on the bookshelf: There is a good book by Sir (!) Michael Marmot, The Status Syndrome: How Social Standing Affects our Health and Longevity. It shows in great detail that low status does in fact hurt in ways that can be objectively measured, such as life expectancy, and that low status and bad health outcomes are not (only) both consequences of some common cause like genetics, but that low status has a direct and independent effect on health.
Jessica@241 wrote: “ I would also recommend Heartland by Sarah Smarsh. Much like Vance’s book but she loves her people warts and all.”
Ah. Both Vance and Arnade have a loving attitude towards the subjects of their books; not sure if you’re implying that they don’t. Vance’s dust-cover quote on Arnade’s book says: “Dignity is a profound book, taking us to parts of our country that many of our leaders never visit, and introducing us to people those same leaders don’t know. [The book] will break your heart but also leave you with hope, because Chris Arnade’s ‘back row America’ contains not just struggle, but also perseverance, resilience, and love.”
I find it amusing that Vance’s book has page after page of laudatory review quotes, given BEFORE he became a public figure and Vice President; I doubt folks like the NYT would be quite so generous now!
I’ll check out “Heartland”; thanks.
Another book on a similar theme I can recommend is “Nomadland” by Jessica Bruder; it looks in depth at those who in quiet desperation use rickety RVs and campsites for their homes, doing temp work as campsite hosts and Amazon warehouse workers while eaking out an existance on tiny Social Security checks or other minimal resources. That book was also made into a movie, winning three Academy Awards. The book is better, but the movie does a good job too of getting across the stories and the situations.
All of this suggests we could make a communal stab at coming up with a booklist & perhaps videolist of sources describing and documenting the ongoing social collapse in the USA.
Well, Trump caved in to the Israel Lobby and the neocons:
Trump Confirms Strikes On Iran’s Nuclear Sites
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/force-posturing-six-b-2-stealth-bombers-en-route-indo-pacific-ahead-trumps-intel
“America First”? Yeah, right ……
Oh boy.. Now he did it. NOW HE DID IT!! Orange de Julius just allowed ALL of Iran’s ‘Nukular’ facilities to be bombed .. courtesy via a passle of B-something something stealth fighters. We’er fracked, in the extreme!
El, I know. It’s weird.
Johnny B., I’m not at all surprised that physicians and research scientists are trying to claw back some of the cash that’s been diverted from their pockets by insurance and pharmaceutical firms, but I’ve personally suffered enough from the misbehavior of physicians, and personally witnessed enough experimental fraud on the part of research scientists, that I don’t buy the claim that they’re innocent victims. There’s no shortage of discredit to go around. As for the Wakefield article, that’s a straw man the medical industry loves to bash; au contraire, the rise of vaccine skepticism is largely a function of the explosion of autoimmune diseases in children following the dramatic expansion of vaccination schedules in recent years, and blowback from the endless gaslighting of parents who notice the connection. I encourage you to look sometime at the rates of autoimmune diseases among Amish children, who aren’t vaccinated at all, and compare it to the rates of these same diseases among non-Amish children in the same states. It really does point up a message that the medical industry doesn’t want to deal with.
Earthworm, I think you’re missing my point. There are women who aren’t sweet-tempered, who are generally pushy and nasty and get called a puppy’s momma for good reason. The women I’ve interacted with who followed the Karen script on this blog don’t fall into this category.
Robert M, I know! It’s one of the weirdest modern habits of not-really-thought.
Aldarion, interesting. Thanks for this.
Lew, thanks for the contributions to the reading list.
Ambrose, every society I know of considers it appropriate to kill people under certain conditions — for example, in war. As for karma, it’s a source of endless surprise to me that so many people insist on misunderstanding it in the same way you have. Karma is not about cursing, or punishment; the word literally means “action.” It’s simply the principle that every act has consequences — and yes, eating fish is an act, and therefore has consequences. It’s the Abrahamic religions, and by and large them alone, that fixate on the notion of law, transgression, and punishment. Karma, by contrast, unfolds from every act and provides opportunities for learning and the development of character that proceed from every act. With regard to MLP, well, yeah. (Yuck.)
Barry, exactly. Current appropriation bills matter much less than the structural changes under way, which are preparing for the Big Beautiful Default that everyone knows is coming and nobody wants to talk about.
Michael and Polecat, or quite possibly they did the usual thing and dumped a lot of bombs on patches of empty desert, and Trump will now declare victory and go home.
@251 Aldarion
The hypothetical society was a rhetorical device. A society could prioritize an interpretation of biological fitness (maybe a really competent, reproductively successful person) and use that as the basis for their hierarchies. To an extent, we Americans like the idea of meritocracy, where people earn their positions through talent and/or hard work rather than inheriting their social status from their well-off parents. That is a less extreme version of valuing “fitness.”
During the Long Descent hat JMG sketched out in some of his writings, charismatic warlords will inspire loyal armies of angry young men to overthrow bureaucrats. So our descendants will value traits like talent and physical strength over the abstract things our society values. Then later on, new civilizations will value more abstract things as aggression (perhaps) becomes a disadvantage in states with professional standing militaries and lots of commerce.
Dump bombs on patches of empty desert? JMG, I suppose you will have heard of qanats? I would hate to think we just destroyed a farmer’s thousand year old water supply conduit so that Mr. Trump could “declare victory”.
I think the president was trying to thread a very thin needle here, doing the absolute minimum to appease his Ziocon financial backers while not completely blowing the midterm elections.
One thing that’s heartened me the last couple days is seeing resistance from the Right to the plan to sell off millions of acres of federal land. Many of them are open to the general idea but are wary of the vague assurances that proponents of the sale have made that it won’t cut into pristine forest or recreational land used by hikers, campers, hunters, and fishers, and they are demanding an itemized accounting of all the parcels that are intended to be sold, which proponents refuse to do.
Nice to see some actual conservation becoming a hot topic again.
Well Mr. Greer, I guess we’ll find out soon enough whether it was an orange jujitsu or the real bigly deal.
p.s. – apologies for being off topic. I’m rather distraught at what’s happening currently.
JMG: “Karma is not about cursing, or punishment; the word literally means “action.” It’s simply the principle that every act has consequences — and yes, eating fish is an act, and therefore has consequences.”
This is exactly the part I find incomprehensible. What are the consequences of my fish-eating? (Let us assume no complicating factors, like laws about fishing licenses or etc.) Some possibilities:
(a) I am now destined to be eaten by a fish in a future life, or something like that. (Strange, and what would the mechanism for this even be?)
(b) There is now one less fish in the world, plus a cascade of other effects go rippling out in all directions. (But even a materialist could agree with this)
(c) If I come from a culture that allows fish-eating–or my personal ideals permit it–and it does not occur to me to question it, then no karma or minimal karma is accrued. Otherwise, the seeds of guilt get planted in my subconscious, to ripen at some future time (perhaps some future life) and…cause some unspecified bad thing to happen? (Without being punishment, of course!)
To my way of thinking, all moral laws (even the ones against murder) are of this nature. It makes as little sense to say that the universe is trying to teach us not to commit murder, as to say it is trying to teach us not to eat fish.
“It’s the Abrahamic religions, and by and large them alone, that fixate on the notion of law, transgression, and punishment. Karma, by contrast, unfolds from every act and provides opportunities for learning and the development of character that proceed from every act.”
I don’t see these as very different. You ascribe to karma an educational role that is not very different from what some New Agers say about God–instead of the Final Judgement, we get a friendly Life Review! (But what if I sincerely disagree with the Recording Angel about morality?) Other versions (e.g. Hindu or Buddhist models) describe karma as an impersonal force, like gravity, that might well act against our spiritual best interests, and is certainly not trying to teach us anything. I am not arguing for that, either. *Any* of these models suggests that the universe has some set of ethics hard-wired into it as the goal of all this karmic education, and the standard against which our actions are weighed. On the other hand, any attempt to formulate what those are will sound suspiciously like the default values of our culture and species. (What is karma to the tiger?) By the same token, our traditions about the gods are similarly culture-bound, as are all our cosmologies (including karma itself!).
I hope I am not beating this into the ground, or venturing too fair afield from Karens and so on, but this is sort of a personal koan, a riddle I have contemplated for years. My own (rather existentialist) “solution” is that karma, the gods, and other such facts about the universe (if facts they be) are spiritually irrelevant. They don’t matter, and can’t matter (except perhaps instrumentally). *We* decide what our values are, not God or karma.
Re : JMG and dropping bombs on Iran.
All I know is, the few episodes of Eurabiamania podcast will be feisty.
After hearing overnight that Iran’s nuclear facilities had been bombed, I opened my Kindle this morning and the first two titles I noticed in my library were Nuclear War Survival Guide 2022 and PREPARED: The 8 Secret Skills of an Ex-IDF Special Forces Operator. I had downloaded them a couple of years ago in a fit of paranoia. Maybe I’ll start reading them now.
Regarding status, I was well on my way to the laptop class like most members of my family when for reasons I don’t understand I lost all ambition in my late 30s early 40s and just kind of drifted since then. I’d had enough contact with very successful people to conclude that the only benefit of having money is you meet a wealthier class of a**hole. I was wrong. You do need a certain amount for medical, emergencies, helping friends etc.
Nowadays my life as an impecunious white in black-ruled South Africa is very similar to Bogatyr #115’s. Having no car, I walk to the local shops for necessities. For exotics like olive oil, coffee beans, and stone-ground flour I catch the bus into town. My big problem is the empty streets where I’ve twice been mugged. Who will help you when there’s no one of your community to come to your aid.? No one. I speak from experience. There are plenty of white people in this gentrifying suburb but they all climb into their cars and drive to the mall. You never see them on the streets except ironically during the height of the Covid lockdown. Then during the one hour allowed for exercise whole families came out with dogs and strollers and the streets came alive.
Am I unhappy? Not at all. I’ve been here nearly 30 years, I get on well with most of the people, and for all the problems it’s a better fit for me than most other places.
For sure we do seem to be sailing passed one another. Perhaps it is a cultural thing.
All of the different labels and and names to call folk puzzle me no end, and while I certainly understand, having worked customer facing in the past, that there almost seem to be multiple species of humans, those who are ‘more’ human, and those who are ‘less’ human in terms of their animal propensities and behaviours. I’ve experienced the pushy, entitled, narcissistic and mean bully who demands special treatment who is so self-absorbed and lacking in self-awareness they make a rock look compassionate, but women who behaved that way were always referred to [in your preferred lingo] as ‘a real puppy’s momma’ and a man who behaved that way would be called either a bastard or that small orifice lurking in the nether regions.
I am not asking you for an answer but to elucidate my thinking – what I don’t understand is why the term karen exists and how it is a special case – from where I’m sitting it looks like a lazy way of avoiding certain language; but of course context is important, so coming from being immersed in reading some of the trans activists and incel threats of violence, actual acts of violence, and calls for violence against women standing for women’s rights (and daring to question men’s rights to insist that they are a woman) is an autogynophillia joke pushed too far; coming from that position and seeing the adding of more pejoratives for women and making them socially acceptable is a splinter in the mind.
Of course, apply different conceptions and perspectives and things obviously look and feel different. Without subtlety and nuance it is very easy to end with a homogenised mess. Sometimes I think we should return to base 12 rather than decimal – decimal and binary black and white thinking are not conducive to subtlety or complexity.
Watching the mating behaviour of pheasants, hedgehogs, pigeons and ducks and then considering that humans are animals too is quite sobering; you said: “It’s a common adage among us men, for example, that we can only think with one head at a time, and when the one down between the legs does the talking, it can require an enormous effort to wrest control from it and start thinking with the brain instead.” I am reminded of the old saying ‘Women like a reason for sex, men just need a location’.
Why don’t we drop this now, it looks like time to fill up with fuel before the Straits of Hormuz get closed!
What do you think the odds are of the Nimitz (due to be decommissioned) getting false-flagged to drum up domestic support and rally the herd behind the insanity?
>prepare to have your sanity blasted by the awful truth! I had several of them (a prance of Bronies, perhaps?) at one point discussing magic with me on blog posts; they wanted my advice on how to invoke Princess Celestia as a goddess.
Wasn’t it HP Lovecraft that was always going on about how your sanity was about to be obliterated by the horrible revelations from higher order beings? What if he was wrong about them being ugly and dark looking and instead they were bright, light and insufferably cute?
When you enter Equestria, you might not make it back…
>preparing for the Big Beautiful Default that everyone knows is coming
Methinks they are not preparing for it quite as much as they should. I think my name for what the dangerhairs call Drumpf is President Half-Measure. Shrug, we’ll see what happens when we hit the 50% interest outlay point. Whatever happens, it ain’t going to be pleasant. And it shouldn’t take too long for us to get there, now that we’re past the linear part of the Taylor Series.
>it looks in depth at those who in quiet desperation use rickety RVs and campsites for their homes, doing temp work as campsite hosts and Amazon warehouse workers while eaking out an existance
1935 is calling. It wants its lifestyle back. Despite all the gaslighting, money printing and fraud, we’re right there, right now.
Not the first to point it out by any means, but perhaps the best way to make sense of the American predicament at this time is to look to that most venerable of American institutions: professional wrestling.
The presidential jockeying and a large part of the culture war handwaving is kayfabe–the willingness to believe in storylines that arouse the passions and keep the participants fixated on the ups and downs of the various heels and faces. Macho Man haters vs. Hulk Hogan haters, etc. Distraction. Meantime, the actual decisions, so far as they go, are largely made by the various cabals that comprise the “deep state,” chiefly the military-industrial complex, these days. Then they bring in the various mascots–your Bushes, Obamas, Bidens, and Trumps–to sell “the work” to the ravening crowds.
There’s much glee expended over “Trump Derangement Syndrome” and its impact on the “laptop class,” but far less about its opposite number, “Trump Messiah Syndrome,” where people evidently believed that Trump and his MAGA somehow implied something other than Neocon interventionism and continued bloated budgets. I suspect most will simply line up behind His Most Orangeness and the latest forever war, but there are perhaps a few who will be disappointed, much as there were inevitably some Obamanistas who were disillusioned when their favorite failed to usher in a postracial paradise and do anything much about the various Wall Street bankers and forever wars of that era.
Axé
@earthworm
Ages past I was listening to a podcast, sorry I didn’t remember which, where it was stated that the normal civilised person is running an Civilisation OS light, where as the occultist is running the pro version. 😉
@jmg (to Michael and Polecat)
Oh 😮. Thank you. I just saw the news about the bombings and was flabbergasted. I thought for sure they are not going to try it, or that there will be casualties. So the announcement of the raid and it’s complete success unbelievable.
This makes more sense. Pacifies the lobby and keeps good relationships with the negotiating party, covertly of course.
Mary Bennett @264: Yes, I know. I’m pretty much on the same page as you. But, to JHK’s credit, he is often critical of the neocons without pointing out their obvious ethnicity. Only once did he “throw open the overton window” and get specific about it. However this is a tangent from the current topic. The open post is coming soon — if we get through the next few days with the internet and power grid intact. 🙁
>A prance of bronies, perhaps?
— I’m pretty sure it was “herd”, but sure. It was an awfuly small herd on here, IIRC– I was one of them, with the handle (at the time) of Dusk Shine.
A couple of observations– the fandom feels like a fandom, now. The special magic that let pony take over the internet has faded. So, too, at least for me, the special magic that allowed genuine religious contact with Princess Celestia. One could guess many reasons for why that might be. (And I would love for our host to venture a hypothesis.) Still — assuming it isn’t just me –with that energy gone, I am (sadly) able to say with confidence I don’t think bronydom will be the seed of future culture. Honestly, we could do a lot worse than love, tolerance, and the Magic of Friendship.
As for the tulpla thing, people did it, but I don’t think it was nearly as common as is made out to be, and hardly exclusive to Bronies. Other obsessive fandoms have seen the same thing phenomenon– or they used to. Now I’m pretty sure everybody just uses an LLM to simulate their obsession, rather than their own neurons. Which gets them eaten by a succubus, which is quite possibly worse than stuck with a tulpla?
I do think the more, ah, adult aspects of the brony phenomenon reveal something interesting. I’d call the degeneracy an “acquired zoophilia”– that is, there are bronies who were not furries, and who never got into other furry content, whose sexuality retrained itself to MLP through repeated exposure on 4Chan and elsewhere. It makes me think human sexuality is a lot more fluid than the “born this way” crowd would have you believe. (Another, unrelated, data point is the number of transwomen online who will admit that sissy hypno porn started their ‘awakening’ when they were porn-addled straight men. If you don’t know what that is, you probably should not look it up– in its own way it is as disturbing as MLP rule 34 content.)
The future is more likely to be Furry-based than brony-based; the furry crowd seems to have lost none of its pull on the fringes, since it wasn’t reliant on one now-finished television program. All of the ick, and none of the magic. If that happens, you’ll _wish_ it was bronies.
Mary, it was an open secret that during much of the “war” against Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the US air force did bombing runs on patches of empty desert, “fighting Muslim extremism” in much the same spirit that a mime pretends to be trapped in a phone booth. It’s all kayfabe, part of the theater of the absurd that dominates US foreign policy these days. We’ll see in the next few days whether that was what happened this time; watch the Iranian response.
Ambrose, good. You’ve realized that you don’t understand the concept of karma. That’s a step in the right direction, and away from the habit — all too common among Western intellectuals — of flattening out all other religious expressions until what’s left of them make an overfamiliar kind of sense. If this is your koan, excellent; meditate on it until enlightenment comes. This post of mine may or may not be useful to you:
https://www.ecosophia.net/the-law-of-consequences/
Michael, there’s that!
Martin, thanks for the data points.
Earthworm, again, the label “Karen” caught on because it refers to a very specific pattern, not the general one that those more traditional labels discuss. If that’s not a pattern you encounter regularly, why, then, by all means don’t use the term.
Other Owen, I’m almost tempted to write a short Lovecraftian story in which something of the sort turns out to be true…
Fra’ Lupo, exactly! It’s all kayfabe. Politics usually is, and US politics? Double, triple, and in spades.
Vitranc, we’ll see, but that’s my working hypothesis until and unless proven otherwise by events.
TylerA, thanks for this. I’d wondered about that — and yes, I may do a post on that one of these days. Among other things, it has a lot to say about the rise and fall of Wicca.
Wer (offlist), could you please just calm down? All comments here are moderated by me, personally, before going through, and I delete off topic comments — especially if somebody posts a string of them. That doesn’t mean you’re banned; it means that you’ve wasted a lot of effort trying to post off topic comments.
Something that was much more common before the internet is micro social hierarchies where the markers of status can be different than in the society at large. I would guess that within Amish communities there is a social hierarchy defined by land ownership, or position in the church or something like that.
One that might be surprising to most people is the social hierarchy within Ivy League universities ( at least before the internet). The two status markers that were mostly ignored ( at least back int he 70’s and 80’s) were family wealth and Intelligence ( ability to take tests in reality). As was the mission of the admissions department, these were both in generous supply and thus carried little or no status. Instead, for men, the marker of status was athletic ability as this was the attribute in shortest supply. This played out in the large and finely differentiated fraternity system. The key to getting in to most prestigious fraternities was being a recruited athlete in an important sport ( foorball, lacrosse, hockey, crew etc.) These sports oriented fraternities became the most important connections in getting high status jobs after graduation. These connections were usually a fast track in to the world of investment banking and bond trading and house in the Hamptons.
For women status was derived from physical beauty. My wife came straight from the pineapple and sugarcane fields of Maui. But she possessed a kind of exotic beauty unmatched by the overbred girls from the New York suburbs. He roommate was a third generation legacy to the queen bee sorority ( highest status) and from old money New England wealth. She did not get a bid to join, but my wife did, much to her surprise. This sorority was the direct pipeline to the second most important senior honor society in the Ivy League ( after skull and bones at Yale) and a virtual lock on wealth and status in the future. My wife turned them down and chose to join the ” nice girls” sorority
This was a very good thing for me as the social pressures for her to stay away from a guy of mediocre status like myself might have been bad for me.
@Patrick #271: Understood that you are talking about a hypothetical society. All I am saying is what you yourself also point out: the hypothetical society might work on an interpretation of biological fitness. There is no absolute, context-independent scale of fitness. Survival of the fittest means <survival of those that survive.
>I’m almost tempted to write a short Lovecraftian story in which something of the sort turns out to be true
What does “friendship” mean, exactly? Perhaps to a higher order being, it doesn’t mean what you think it means. There are incomprehensible components to friendship. And Equestria has hidden dangers, much the way cats have died in clothes dryers because they didn’t understand the hooman world they were living in. So cute, so snuggly, so whirly and hot. Get me out of here!
>Sometimes I think we should return to base 12 rather than decimal
I think if you are going to start changing things like this prepare for people to come of the woodwork to propose their own pet bases. Like octal (it’s just like base 10, if you’re missing two fingers) or hexadecimal.
>getting false-flagged
The time to do that would’ve been before the war started not after. I get the sense from all of this that it is half-baked and rushed with not nearly enough forethought or planning.
I. Do. Not. Want. To. Get. Involved. With. This.
Vitranc #283
“Civilisation OS light”
Ha… funny 🙂
@Scotlyn #255
“I challenge you to read said article…”
Too late. I read the article back in Spring 2010, a few months after The Lancet retracted it. Of course I had never even heard of it before (I thought). I was in a science teacher professional development group, and since it was run by Baylor College of Medicine, who were already seeing the uptick in parents refusing vaccines for their children, they felt that we should look at the paper and see why it was retracted, to understand how research fraud can lead to so much grief. We had a pretty long discussion session reading it and going through the methodology (I was very glad I had already been exposed to most of the factors discussed when I took Experimental Psychology while getting my undergraduate degree in the 1980’s).
For context (since you shared yours), I have two daughters from my first marriage. They were born in 1994 and 95. They both received the regularly scheduled series of vaccinations (based on the schedule as it was back then). I do remember thinking, “Wow, I don’t remember getting THIS many shots!” Regardless, they got the shots. They’re both fine, immunologically speaking.
Later, after a divorce and remarriage, when my wife was 2 or 3 months pregnant, she decided that she would like to look into a homebirth with a midwife. My sister had done so three times and it seemed fine, so we took that approach. Mind you, this was 2005. We attended all the classes to prepare her and me for the big event. During one of the classes, “Sandy,” one of the midwife’s previous clients, came and gave us a presentation about the dangers of vaccinations. We were told all the talking points at that time. We took her packet of information home, read it, and decided to speak to our pediatrician about delaying or spreading out the vaccinations for our baby.
Now, while you were talking about this with your cohort in ’93 and ’96, two years BEFORE that paper was published, my wife and I were dealing with this in 2005, 7 years AFTER it was published. I can’t speak of your experience, but I can speak of mine.
Flashback to Spring 2010: after going through that lecture/discussion at BCM, I came home, pulled out the file folder that had all of that information in it, and scanned it. And voila! In the bibliography and references was the standard APA citation of the article by “Wakefield, AJ…” After I showed my wife, I disgustedly tossed it into the recycle bin.
And there’s your answer. I believe it was “pivotal” because, while it wasn’t even around when you had your questions, it was around from 1998 until 2010, and being used by people in the anti-vaxx, “do your own research” crowd as “proof” for something that was not true. Granted, it wasn’t just Wakefield’s “research” at fault. Ben Goldacre, a British journalist-researcher, pointed out more than once that, “Wakefield was at the centre of a media storm about the MMR vaccine, and is now being blamed by journalists as if he were the only one at fault. In reality, the media are equally guilty.” He goes on to say that “…the media repeatedly reported the concerns of this one man, generally without giving methodological details of the research, either because they found it too complicated, inexplicably, or because to do so would have undermined their story.” See his book Bad Science for more.
There are other factors involved as well, but this is getting too long.
Meanwhile, I used to see “Sandy” a few times per year due to a situation where I work. Every time I ran into her until 2019, she STILL brought up the topic. So, when I use the word “hysterical,” it is in reference to my experience of her as the local antivaxx queen. It seems that my use of “hysterical” struck a nerve, and if so, I apologize. I should have used a different word that isn’t loaded like that one is. Another learning experience!
Best,
Johnny B
Hi JMG,
On the topic of baboon teeth baring, have you or any of the other readers here gone through the primate behavior literature? One of the references in William Catton’s Overshoot is _Violence, Monkeys, and Man_ which always sounded intriguing to me but I haven’t gotten around to finding a copy yet. Jane Goodall is the most famous primatologist, but that doesn’t necessarily mean her books are the most insightful regarding human behavior. There is a lot of it out there, and much of it looks questionable judging from the titles. I’d be curious if you or the commentariat could make any book recommendations.
Chris W makes an intriguing point about the alpha-female led orca and elephant communities. Public schools look like they are drifting in that direction.
My understanding is that wolf packs have both an alpha male and and alpha female, and I’ve heard claims that the alpha female wolf is the true pack leader and also heard claims that the alpha pair are egalitarian co-leaders. I can think of a number of examples of a violent, dominant male mammal maintaining a harem of females–gorillas belong in this category. Apparently different baboon varieties have different social structures, some female-led, some male-led.
My suggestion: a kvetch of Karens.
> Where I grew up being smart was not considered all that good. Men were supposed to be big, strong, and not too bright. — Siliconguy #237
I can relate to that. My teenage years were spent in an Afrikaans mining community as a result of my divorced mother marrying a miner. (My father was a lawyer.) As a studious type who won prizes for schoolwork but wore glasses and was hopeless at sports, I was viewed with a mixture of suspicion and contempt.The mining crowd were decent people in their way, but once I left I never went back.
Re Jewish success: A Jewish medical student housemate of mine told me that the most intelligent Jews were encouraged to become rabbis and to have big families. He said that no matter how big the family the rabbi would never starve because his local community would always look after him. The purpose was to raise the general level of Jewish intelligence.
Re status: There is an upper, upper class that I never knew existed, except in books. I first became aware of this when in the 70s, wandering randomly around the west end of London one evening, I saw a long procession of Rolls Royces, Bentleys, and other exclusive vehicles queued outside a theater with a liveried doorman. As the doorman opened each car door I expected to see a gouty old Colonel and his fur-swathed matron of a wife alight. Not so. They were young people my own age clad in evening dress. Lots of them. Car after car. And they were obviously having a fabulous time, laughing and joking and clearly having knocked back a couple of Singapore Slings or Buck’s Fizzes. And I thought to myself, where do these gilded individuals hang out? I have never met their like. Presumably in posh schools and country estates with gamekeepers to keep out my type.
The only brony I knew slightly got catfished by an online vigilante group looking to take down pedos. I thought this relative was creepy before he got arrested. Seems like a potential cesspool for people who cant deal with reality or have a grown up relationship.
The mention of the issue of status panic brought to me the idea that, maybe, the reason that seemingly one blogger or writer after anoother loses his or her cool and posts angry diatribes or falls in one or the other kind of Derangement Symndrome is something like status panic, be it for themselves or the order of things as a whole. The stresses in Western society nowadays are so large that it affects more people than even in the aftermath of 2016 and 2020. But status panic is surely not the only reason, another reason is that there are developments in the world, as already described at length by JMG, which many people aren’t able to process.
@samuri_47 (#294):
My wife is a primatologist, with a strong general interest in animal behavior going back as far as her pre-‘teen years. At one of the primatology conferences she attended, a British primatologist presented a paper (with a field video) on how young male chimps band together in their troops to go out and hunt down other young male chimps who have ventured too far away from their home troop. When they find such a young male, they capture him and torture him to death, as slowly as they can, in utterly revolting ways. The video she saw there was bad enough, and she said that the man who presented it told the audience that he had edited out some of the squickiest parts.
I had long held with the unpopular notion that humanity has an utterly depraved component in its natural make-up, but after hearing about this, I came to suspect that inherent depravity goes further back in the evolution of primates than the emergence of hominins.
JMG
I read your comment section for a taste of the outside, outside of the insiders, and a conversation that turns to class and status draws me, having cast myself outside while trying to keep in touch with what goes on in the human realm. When I think of class and status, I have a tendency to think of another tandem, climate and life, as in coevolution of the two. I think of the wonder of life and go out and give my compost pile a drink. The air is hazy from the fires to the west, a new summer ritual, dodging smoke, but it brings to mind the places where people flying planes dropping bombs on people for reasons, outside of my keen. I just listen to music, cds usually. During the lockdown I decided to listen to my music library, I’m not done ,yet, but I don’t turn my music just to have something to talk over, I like to listen. Pahanui Bros. Right now. They are singing Jealous Guy, there are days when I only listen to dead guys, or songs of dead guys, I think you could understand about long ago ideas. Class certainly hangs on to dead guy money, dead guy places and some notion when we were better, usually meaning having more stuff. The status of having a boat in the desert after making lots of money building tons of housing during the previous administration, must have been an anomaly because I noticed houses are being finished, but new houses are not sprouting up like last year. I think the building boom is in part climate refugees from other states, but now the climate is fine and building activity has dropped. maybe there are no workers. It is funny to have a lifelong interaction with migrants, including working with them, eating with them and learning from them. To be accorded status in a hidden class by virtue of bringing something to the table beside trying to pick the cherries faster than a master. Having integrity is my idea of meeting members of other classes and maintaining my own standards, loosely based on a translation of a translation of another culture’s framework. It helps to live in the colonies of the oppressors, those that hate the earth, oh, excuse me, that is my compost pile talking, I think they are in cahoots with my gut biome. I am often driven to try to push them out by stuffing food in, and they say, “Bring it on!” Actually, i think my guts have my best interests in mind. Apparently the society of microbial beings change fast, and adapt or really change, and our conscious minds can connect to the rest of life, but where is the status of that? I think there is a good chance that the status of not just the lap poodles, but half of the important movers and shakers of tiny town USA might lose, depending on FEMA and the Hurricanes, or big insurance taking a hit from no premiums from the edges of the known universe. it seems tipping rice bowls gets to be fun, then somebody gets heart or dies and then the fingers come out. I bet that if enough rice bowls are tipped, the behavior of the upper classes are pretty monkey business, just like a drunken cowboy on the frontier. Plus no gut biome worthy of the name, so when I need intestinal fortitude, green chili is bound to default, and if it is dire, raw habaneros may pull everything out. In the wacky ward, we got what was dredged off the streets and also what was hidden behind closed windows. Before there were Karens, we called them “entitled”, like the woman cursing me out for not opening the locked door, she was not some kind of animal, for three hours, before the charge nurse came and forced us to jump over everything to get this woman out, poor dear. And get her home before she loses too much vodka reserve. The underbelly rots at the head. The hogs at the top of the military cash crop point their fingers at all the snowflakes and laugh. right now the smoke here is from far away.
Wer here
I’ve searched for the query “brony” and I regret it already….
My god the world is going through meltdowns after meltsdowns right now and I cannot unse things after looking at the “brony” thing….
THe symbolism of sun and moon are common in human religions even the Lord is depicted with an aura of light on his head.
JMG I’ve read your comments about bouncing rocks in the desert and If this is what really happened then my God did they seriously expected this thing to work to scare people with it?
I am really wondering about symboplism of the sun, fringe belives and What will be the price of gasoline in the next few days…
replying to Other Owen the amount of nonsense being in circulation right now could fill hundrets of comments section right now. (Jim Kunstler and his “claims” made me sick)
A scary and strange world we live in…. (to cry or laugh)
@298 Robert Mathiesen
This chimpanzee behavior also casts doubt on the Lemurian Deviation story. Perhaps Lemurians & Atlanteans made pacts with demons. But our ancestors have probably been demonically influenced for millions of years, since they developed a theory of mind and understood on some level that other animals can suffer just like then.
If there was a Fall of Man, which is what the Lemurian Deviation is, our ape relatives wouldn’t be capable of this level of deliberate depravity.
About chimps and status – back in the day, I came across an article or excerpt from her biography, by a young primatologist whose superiors in the University were always on her case about “having the wrong attitude,” (which decidedly rang a good, loud bell for me, having been told that many a time by many a person,who never explained that), but then, observing her gorillas and how they approached the boss silverback – body language – she decided to try adopting those signals at work. It worked a treat!
Alas, the boss female in my department in those days (I was staff) was out to get rid of all of us underlings who had our parts of the office running smoothly, and reduce us all to obedient clerks. On top of which, her outside manner was “all girls together, one big happy family,” By the end, the only one left except those on the mailroom floor, was the admin. In other words, labor and the clerk. Against deliberate malice, even pop primatology fights in vain) But still, I’ve never forgotten those professorlal gorillas at another University. Still laughing about it decades later.
Robert M. @ 298: “I had long held with the unpopular notion that humanity has an utterly depraved component in its natural make-up, but after hearing about this, I came to suspect that inherent depravity goes further back in the evolution of primates than the emergence of hominins.”
Maybe the pigs were a civilizing influence, then.
@ Johnny B #293 – Thank you for coming back to me. I do appreciate it. And yes, you are quite right to regret using the word “hysterical”… I probably would not have penned that reply if not for that word… 😉
Here’s the thing, though. Firstly, no one who understands anything about science would draw any conclusions from a tiny sample of 12 case studies. And the paper clearly indicates that Wakefield himself did not hurry to do so. But secondly, what the public *story* tells us is that Wakefield published a paper that connected neurological regression with the MMR vaccine, and worse, that that paper *directly* accounted for ten thousand vaccine “hesitances” or refusals, which is why Wakefield was forced to retract the paper, and also lost his licence to practice.
However, a close read of the paper itself indicates that the line of causality this *story* narrates is exactly backwards. In the paper, Wakefield shares that (many of the) PARENTS noted that the timing of neurological regression in their children appeared to coincide with MMR vaccinations, and then states plainly that this was a connection he was unable to prove.
In other words, it is plain to me that there would be no vaccine “hesitany”, refusal or doubt, if no one had ever suffered a vaccine injury OR if, once they HAD suffered it, they had not been gaslit about it. However, vaccine injuries do happen on a regular basis, and people are gaslit about injuries they or their children have suffered, on a regular basis.
What I think happened with Andrew Wakefield, as it did with Robert F Kennedy Jr, is that some group of mothers of injured children got a not-entirely-dismissive hearing with each of these men in which they neglecting to apply the automatic gaslighting technique such mothers would have become accustomed to, and that, as a result, each of them found themselves somehow, probaby less than enthusiastically, recruited into the kinds of researching/advocating activities that such parents badly need but hardly ever get.
Both Wakefield and Kennedy have paid the price in terms of reputation (which, to make this entirely on-topic, is another way of referring to status). Wakefield lost his reputation, his funding and his licence to practice. Kennedy immediately became a “kook” to all the “respectable” people in his professional circle, and also some in his personal circle.
Personally, I think it is to both men’s credit that they took such status and reputation (and likely, economic) hits on the chin, that they refused to renege on the mothers who had initially recruited them, and carried on researching and raising awareness in these heavily mined waters, regardless. Wakefield through film making and Kennedy through writing and advocacy.
For my own part, I, like you, am lucky that my children had no adverse reactions to their vaccines. At the time, I had no reason to doubt the safety or efficacy of vaccines themselves, it only seemed to me and my friends that the childhood schedule might be both somewhat redundant, and immunologically confusing, during the period when we knew we ourselves were directly shoring up our babies’ immune systems by breastfeeding them.
And, for many years, nothing occurred to shake my reliance on the common belief in the safety or efficacy of vaccines until, many years later, I knew a young teenage girl, an athlete, who was utterly immobilised and comprehensively disabled by a HPV vaccine. It was only then that I myself began to dig deeply into scientific papers and gradually realise how little “there” there is to vaccines. (Not one of the papers that led me to this conclusion were Wakefield’s, since I was mainly looking into large RTC’s, not small sample case series’s.)
So… what I am saying is this. The cause of “vaccine hesitancy” is clearly the recurring rate of adverse events occurring to people who had no reason to doubt until AFTER suffering such an event, and NOT propagandists somehow sowing “hysteria.” Adverse events may be (more or less) rare, but for each person who suffers one, the incidence is 100%.
And what is more seriously troubling is what happens next. You would THINK that when a person has suffered an adverse event while doing something that is considered to be highly protective of others in their community, such a person would occupy a status something akin to a wounded warrior returning from the field of battle. You would think people would laud such a person, and say “thank you! you took one for the team! We appreciate it, and here is some lifelong healthcare support.”
But, as you may know, that is not what happens. What happens is that that person’s life story becomes “misinformation.” Revealing that they exist, and that *this* happened to them, is censorable, even when true, because it may provoke “hesitancy” in others. And of course, obtaining necessary health care becomes an obstacle course, dealing continually with a system that chooses to be perennially “baffled” as to the nature of their suffering.
So, I wonder if you might read this paper one more time, and consider – really consider – whether the paper, as written, supports the direction of causality that Wakefield’s detractors would like to say it does. (ie that Wakefield’s paper *prompted* widespread “hesitancy”). Or whether, instead, it indicates a doctor and researcher who was not *quite* mean enough to gaslight and disappoint parents, but not certain either, at least at the time of writing the paper itself, of what to make of their claims?
Hey JMG
Thanks for the praise, and while we are still talking about status and data-points for thinking about it, I just remembered that “Art of Manliness” did a series of essays on the subject of status and how it relates to men’s lives. It most likely will have something that may help you and the commentariat understand how status affects our lives. I recall that it does go into the biology of status in some parts of the series, but it was a long time ago when I read it.
https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/behavior/men-and-status-an-introduction/
Robert M,
Thanks for this. I have heard similar chilling tales about chimps hunting small monkeys for meat. Yikes. It makes me think that the wars between homo sapiens and homo erectus and neanderthals were epic and and bloodthirsty.
Does your wife have a view on Jane Goodall’s or Franz de Waal’s writings?
I figure that the Brony phenomenon originally caught on, because the only way to shock or offend internet people was to promote something cheery, saccharine, and kid-friendly. 4Chan naturally responded by making porn of it. A Furry informant relates how a particular gay subculture took over his movement. Bronies have had to navigate similar divides and dangers within their (overlapping) fandom, what with little girls and college men attending the same conventions / posting in the same fora.
TylerA: “Now I’m pretty sure everybody [in the Brony community] just uses an LLM to simulate their obsession…”
I figured they were using these!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bossfight/comments/xj9da4/rainbow_dash_the_pony_fleshlight/
(Safe for work, if your workplace doesn’t mind you browsing pony-themed fleshlights)
(A “fleshlight” is a brand name for what is otherwise known as a masturbation sleeve)
(This must be the kind of thing they got up to in the generations before Noah)
I had to look up “sissy hypno porn”–I never heard of it–and, for the benefit of other curious, but cautious, folk, offer the following description from one Genevieve Gluck: “The pornography typically involves men wearing lingerie and engaged in ‘forced feminization’ — eroticizing the illusion of being made to ‘become women’ through dress, makeup, and sexual submissiveness, and the fetishizing of the humiliation this brings. ” I still don’t get why this would be enticing, but hey, I don’t get the foot fetishists either.
Sadly, the Patient Zero of the Brony phenomenon was likely also a victim of hypnotically-induced feminization (he was using “binaural beats”), and originally hated LGBT people:
https://sonichu.com/cwcki/File:Bc2_mlp1_(see_summary_for_hi-res_link).jpg
(A typical Democratic voter, at BronyCon 2017)
Chris was actually interested in MLP *before* the Generation 4 “Friendship is Magic” cartoon (i.e. the one everybody knows; they’re up to Gen6 now, I think). There is an early video of him recommending that men comb the hair of MLP figurines as a way to practice talking to girls and “stay straight,” if *that* isn’t foreshadowing.
Wer,
If it’s any consolation, the price of gold and silver are roughly stable as the Asian markets open ahead of the West. So whatever happened, it’s not the earth-shattering event that the Western media are portraying it to be…
Cheers.
Mary Bennet,
Your comment about the ritual theater of military posturing calmed my nerves considerably.
Many thanks for that! My son turned 15 today, and I was a wreck last night.
Thanks, JMG! Er, can you at least tell me how karma is likely to deal with fish-eating? (As a proxy for other, very particular moral choices.) Does karma care about the fish themselves, or broader issues of ecology and society, or whether I am being true to my ideals as they pertain to ichthyophagia (as Cayce might say)? What counts as a moral “action” (the root of karma)?
In your earlier, Fifth-Wednesday post, you give the example of doing something sleazy–but “sleaziness” is very much a human socio-cultural construct. Is there a universal concept of sleaze, against which karma is the enforcement mechanism? Or are we “judged by what we know,” according to our own ideals (Cayce again), and perhaps guided toward some set of target values?
@Patrick (#301):
Just speaking for myself here, but I am inclined to dismiss the theory of any Lemurian (or Atlantean) Deviation altogether, and with it also the Biblical Fall of Man, chiefly for primatological reasons. (As for Lemuria itself, see the fairly good wikipedia article on it, especially the part about its appropriation by Theosophists and other occultists.)
@Phutatorius (#303):
PIgs? They happily eat humans when they can.
@samurai_47 (#306):
She thinks highly of both Goodall’s and de Waal’s work.
Clay, oh, granted. As a member of lodges I get to see a lot of microsocial hierarchies.
Other Owen, oh, I’d do something much more squamous and rugose than that. I recall the scene in Madeleine L’Engle’s A Wrinkle in Time where every single child on the world of Camazotz was bouncing a ball in exactly the same rhythm; imagine “friendship” done the same way…
Samurai_47, yes, though it was years ago that I last read any of that.
Booklover, granted. No action anywhere in the cosmos has only one cause.
Jdm, er, okay.
Wer, sorry about that!
Patrick (if I may), no, the Lemurian deviation isn’t a general “fall of man.” It’s much more specific than that. Doubtless human beings were capable of monumental nastiness before Lemurian times.
Patricia, funny! Thanks for this.
J.L.Mc12, and thanks for this.
Ambrose, nah, you still don’t get it. Karma doesn’t care. If you pick up a wrench and let it go, does gravity care? No, it just acts. “Sleaziness” is simply one culture’s description of a particular pattern of behavior; you could insert any other such pattern — laziness, or punctiliousness, or sociability, or courage, or murderous rage, or a propensity to eat fish — and the same rules would apply. Any action makes you more likely to repeat the action and to experience the consequences of the action, for good and ill. That’s karma.
Robert Mathiesen: “PIgs? They happily eat humans when they can.”
I know some humans I’d happily throw to them.
Robert M. 311: This has come up before here: https://www.macroevolution.net/human-origins.html
Pigs. I don’t think we give them enough credit.
More from primatology:
Another feature of human behavior that almost certainly was inherited from pre-hominin primates is the propensity to respond in ritualized ways to experiences that produce awe or wonder. (These are what Rudolf Otto called numinous experiences in his masterwork The Idea of the Holy [German original, 1917; English translation, 1923]).) Ritualization of behavior under such circumstances has now been observed in chimpanzees (by Goodall and several other primatologists) and in baboons (by Barbara Smuts and John Watanabe). This may indicate a natural progression from numinous experience through ritual behavior, and eventually (at least in humans) to entire systems of religious rituals for holy places and holy seasons.
Building on this, James W. Jones (in 2020) and Martin Lang (in 2023) have proposed that human religions as social institutions actually develop from such ritual systems, and eventually may even give rise to more or less elaborate systems of ideas about Deities and the Divine.
To somewhat oversimplify this, numinous experience seems to come first, then ritual behavior in response to that edxperience, then systems of rituals for holy times and places, and finally — optionally! — systems of thought about Gods (theologies). This rather stands our current ways of thinking about religion on its head.
Late again to the ecosophia post
#4 Ian re: change the courtier class/ look at who controls Vance. Hear hear on the eyes on palantir dept. . And that contractors are more expensive than ‘staffing’ the govt in the current pig at trough structure. Tho have to agree with the later gentleman that tax the rich is doesn’t go far towards responding to the scale of the deficit. For that I would point towards hagens most pithy version of his ‘great simplification’ tale.
Re: hill billy life over lead engineer , gardening with spiritual lectures on, a weird juncture in my work life data points.
I’ve had a life where I could garden and listen to spiritual lectures while also maintaining a govt contract that was feeding into the launch of a business engaged in the regional food provision in the Ohio river valley, pulling back against long supply chains towards a raised here/killed here/ate here scenario. The contract got all shook up in the trump transition but in the end the threats to ‘cancel’ the program seem to be basically theater that took a while, introduced uncertainty, and shifted goals towards direct patronage flows to farmers. So I lay myself off during the uncertain time to reduce drain on the small business whose big scalar jump in sales will not hit until the fall. This means I’m applying for jobs. Of course an absurd proportion are in health care. Other curious features. End up getting offered gig on a small team at state dept of agriculture funneling commodities produced in the US into food banks (my little piece, feels like a growth industry considering the economy and the floods and tornados tho we’ll see) and other gov institutional purchasers like veterans homes and schools and so forth. So I’m totally shifting *towards* laptop class work but doing something immanently practical in state government with a side option maintained to return to biz after the fall depending if I can stand to go to an office 4-5 days a week and a lot of other questions. I think w kids at the age mine are the boundedness of the work might be good for a change. Point really being that in such unstable times it’s more unpredictable than ever what the right turn is for doing our best work… I was sad to miss you guys but our community choir show was great and leaving my son more briefly home alone went terrible, so the trek wasn’t in the cards. Maybe some year, a girl can dream!
Hi John Michael,
Big beautiful default is a goodie. Did you make that up?
Every year or two I re-read Michael Lewis’s insightful book ‘The Big Short’. It’s an instructive lesson that our elites will basically recount untruths or at best look the other way, even when serious trouble is brewing. You’re writing about status panic this week, but in order to achieve status and then hold onto it, I’d suggest that not making falsehoods which are easily popped is part of that whole story. Few, if any people want the ugly truth as to the sort of stuff that goes on behind the scenes to keep nations rolling along, but neither do they want to be treated like idiots. There’s a missing middle ground in there. And so the elites lose status because people begin to withdraw support. You can see it happening in real time now.
And the vax issue is popping it’s head up down here too. What did they expect?
Cheers
Chris
Hey JMG and Commentariat
On the subject of “Bronies”, I came across a 3-part series about them on Substack which may be of interest to you all.
https://yakubianape.substack.com/p/the-men-who-stare-at-horses-part
But, to offer my 2 cents on the subject, I wonder how much of the current “Brony” and other similar fandoms were caused by an increase in storytelling competence from the writers of children’s TV shows. I’m certain that up until fairly recently most children shows were lacking in the ability to tell a story in a way that would enthral anyone older than 10 years old, but for some reason gradually became competent enough to capture the interest of people far older than the original target demographic.
OK, so following up on this reply to Ambrose — “Karma doesn’t care. If you pick up a wrench and let it go, does gravity care? ” — but there is still negative karma isn’t there? i.e. more than just in how we experience it, we still need to dispose of/overcome/clear the negative karma before being able to move on?
Just wanted to say, I do like the term Laptop class, it summarizes the whole thing wonderfully. I do have a 2nd hand laptop that cost $200, but at 17 years old, I don’t think I am the one being targeted here. 😉
@Jerry “I have a sneaking suspicion that the laptop class is silently adding these cumbersome steps to “protect” their status (or slow down the inevitable).”
A friend of mine worked in the software side of banking about 10 years back, he admitted that their jobs are basically pointless because everything had been solved. So to ensure they had ongoing work for years to come, they deliberately made things as complex as possible while still vaguely functioning. This goes on everywhere in software and larger businesses.
@ Peter “I am especially curious about the fate of the medicine class.”
Look at the rising tide of home remedies, people are sick and tired of going through the medicine class. I know a few people in that class and it is obscene just how money they demand while not really doing that much or worse giving outright terrible advice. When they get things right, it is amazing, but more often than not people just see the grift.
Befriend your local herbalist, they will at the very least actually listen to you.
@ MichaelZ RE : Iain McGilchrist
It is a shame that he became completely obsessed with this model. He seems like a smart fellow but I suspect because he gained so much success via his book “The Master and His Emissary” that all his energy is being directed at this concept that doesn’t seem to really exist except in a possible a very very vague sense… maybe. Big maybe on that.
@Neptunesdolphins and JMG RE : Protests
It was the original founders of the ‘Occupy wall st’ protests who were eventually smart enough to figure out that ‘protest’ as a means of change is dead and that ‘occupy’ was its last dying breath. Society has built up anti bodies against that technique and so it is ignored by those in power. Like chaining yourself to a tree, worked in the 1980’s, not now.
That people still engage en mass with these in street protests with the same old slogans and ideas is partially a showing of how completely out of new ideas and stories of a different future many have. Things have to progress while simultaneously not change at all.
The shooting by Luigi Mangione was the first thing that has cut through in any sense, and the smarter folks on the left are afraid of the copy cats that will come out of that. It feels like the Unibomber all over again, yeah it gets attention but ends up absolutely crushing the movement they want.
My Little Pony
Way Too Much Info
@J.L.Mc12 #319… “I’m certain that up until fairly recently most children shows were lacking in the ability to tell a story in a way that would enthral anyone older than 10 years old, but for some reason gradually became competent enough to capture the interest of people far older than the original target demographic.”
IDK, I think people who are older may have had enough media interference in their life that they don’t read books or do things that would give them another interest. I think they are easily enthralled.
Dear JMG,
I must admit that I am confused by your repeated claim regarding “status” that “the positions occupied by individuals in a social hierarchy are assigned by society, not by biology.”
What I don’t understand is the idea of status being “assigned by society”. Society is not a monolithic entity with a will and a mind of its own. Obviously, status can only be assigned by other people. And does every person assign to a particular individual one specific level or mode of status? I would say “no”.
For example, among the professional managerial class, I as a self-employed individual making a relatively low income in a very physically-oriented job would be assigned a fairly low if not very low status. But among my neighbors, or among fellow self-employed business owners, I probably hold a much higher status. So which status is “correct”?
Is not status, like beauty, strictly in the eye of the beholder?
@Mauve Oscillating Lobster Flaneur,
Hmm. I was in grad school and reading about about a book a week while living with my then-fiancee (now wife) when I first became a Brony. I don’t think lack of adult relationships or books is causative in my case.
While the sad, lonely, uncultured fellow you’re imagining absolutely found a home in Bronydom (the motto of which was “love and tolerate”– they took all kinds and treated them as well as possible) he was not the norm. There were actually sociological studies done, and the bronies as a class skewed wealthier and higher educated than the general population… probably not more than could be explained by the large fraction of high-functioning autistics, though. I encourage you to read the substack link J.L.Mc12 posted if you’re interested in understanding, and not just having a group to look down upon. If reading isn’t your jam, there was a documentary produced by John de Lancie, too. (Who, having been on Star Trek since the 80s, is no stranger to unhinged and obsessed fans.) It’s free online:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k4WjwNrits
As for the appeal? De gustibus non disputandum est — there can be no argument in matters of taste. It’s not your thing, that’s fine.
@All,
There’s some great horror that was written by the Brony community. Some of it is just… ick, but the best one for intellectual fridge horror was probably “Friendship is Optimal” in which Hasbro accidentally commissions a super-AI:
https://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-optimal
It’s not squamose or betentacled, but it’s creepy as all get out and has the theme of alien interpretations of ‘friendship’. No blood, gore or adult themes in the story, but it’s more unsettling than the entire Saw franchise put together.
@JMG,
I hope to read that post someday. Personally I think there was some real magic in the Brony phenomenon–it wouldn’t have taken over the entire internet the way it did without it– and to put it in CosDoc terms, I suspect another solar system approached ours from some unknowable direction on the higher planes, and it echoed down into the astral to captivate the human imagination before drifting away.
Like the song goes, “It’s a Long way from Equestria” https://soundcloud.com/acousticbrony/long-way-from-equestria
— we’ve just drifted too far for the magic to reach. You may have a much different take than that, which I would love to know, but that’s what it felt like from the inside.
@J.L.Mc12 #319… “I’m certain that up until fairly recently most children shows were lacking in the ability to tell a story in a way that would enthral anyone older than 10 years old, but for some reason gradually became competent enough to capture the interest of people far older than the original target demographic.”
IDK, I think people who are older may have had enough media interference in their life that they don’t read books or do things that would give them another interest. I think they are easily enthralled.
I’m not sure I agree with this. I can think of a number of animated Disney shows that are objectively extremely well written and are better than a lot of scripted adult media by multiple orders of magnitude.
Except, JMG, that Trump is none of those things you claim he is. He is establishment Republican, through and through.
He proudly touts his bill that would increase spending and cut taxes for corporations. He throws Musk out precisely because Musk wanted deeper cuts.
Next, he starts a war with Iran on orders from Israel. Does it get any more establishment than that?
I’m not saying we will never have any change, but clearly, Trump is not that yet. Which is expected from an aging, boomer, real estate tycoon. I have always liked your analysis, JMG, but admit you’re wrong on this one. Trump is establishment, just a different, more exotic flavor.
@J.L.Mc12
Hmm, that makes me think of the Avatar the Last Airbender fandom. There’s quite a lot of meat in the characters, character arcs and plots, some of them using themes much darker than found in typical kids shows (war, genocide, imperialism etc) and when it came out on netflix again it caused an explosion of fanfic, most of it probably written by adults for other adults. Some was excellent, most was mediocre, and quite a bit was terrible. Child-friendliness and the opposite was all over the map. Which is true of most fandoms, there’s some really awful stuff out there and some absolute gems. Reader beware, and pay attention to the ratings and the tags. I can’t speak to the Brony stuff, since I’m not part of that fandom, but they do have a bad reputation.
“Tom River says:
June 18, 2025 at 2:16 pm
Most NATO allies are going crazy about Trump, for a simple reason. … Defending one’s country these days is incredibly expensive, and it means that the NATO allies may have to give up some goodies they value a lot, such as universal health care. …
Trump is also following the script for an authoritarian takeover of government, with the full consent of the Congress. That’s the part that concerns me much much more, and sends me out into the street.”
Are you sure?
In Europe, the three (still) neutral countries (Ireland, Austria and Switzerland) spend less on defence than the members of NATO do. Ireland spends 0.2% of GDP, Austria and Switzerland 1.0%. Switzerland has the longest experience of such a defence policy which it terms ‘armed neutrality’.
Countries in NATO spend about 2.0% of GDP and are being told they need to spend 5.0%. Sweden and Finland were strong-armed into joining NATO and ceasing to be neutral. So I expect their budgets will rise sharply.
Now, our buddy Kunstler is declaring “Mission Accomplished”:
https://www.kunstler.com/p/boom
He calls “Bullfeathers!” on the idea of shutting down the Strait of Hormuz. He also ridicules JMG’s idea that this was theater.
Most disappointingly, he trots out the tired old trope that “all criticism of Israel is antisemitism”.
“The leitmotif lately is the popular idea that Israel controls the US like a puppeteer and that the Jews are out to rule the world. Yes, the shrill charge of ‘Zionism’ boils down to that. (Just look at the comment section of this blog.)”
Never mind Walt & Mearsheimer, or that Israels’s most vociferous critics have been Jews, not Gentiles. His mind is made up, and he will not be confused with facts. Oh, well …
Very sad. I thought he was better than that.
Hey Mauve Oscillating Lobster Flaneur
I guess that is a fair point. If many people have never experienced good literature or media in general, anything that was better than average would appear to be amazing.
To be more specific, if a man had never read of the interpersonal conflicts described in literature like “Pride and Prejudice”, a story about ponies that experience interpersonal conflicts moderately more complex than what is depicted in other children shows or newspaper articles would appear “deeper” in comparison to anything else, and thus deserve more esteem from their perspective.
However, this would not necessarily disprove my theory that children shows have increased in storytelling quality to the point that older people can be obsessed with them, but would instead just be a second cause.
Huh. Interesting; I myself wouldn´t necessarily say that “where there is upward mobility there must be downward mobility to balance it”; consider gay marriage, for instance. I utterly fail to see how the fact that gay people can now marry (which can certainly be described as a move up) diminishes the marriages of straight people; no one is moving down.
Or so it seems to me.
Then again, there are plenty of people who get very upset by the notion of gay marriage – a fact that has always mystified me. I imagine if you’re a straight person who feels that every move up *must* imply a move down, you feel that the existence of gay marriages automatically diminishes your own.
The same, of course, might go for gender fluidity. Methinks the people who get upset at transgenders feel they derive some status from their own gender, and furthermore feel that someone moving ‘up’ into their gender diminishes their status.
Does that make sense?
I honestly wouldn´t know.
I *do* know that I myself a) have no problem at all with either gay marriage or trans people and b) have never seen the point of getting married and certainly do not feel I derive any status from being perceived as male.
Robert Mathiesen (no. 316): the popular concept of “religion” tends to conflate a number of phenomena that are often found separately–ritual, supernatural belief, law / etiquette / custom, social hierarchy, group identity–but happen to be lumped together in Christianity (thanks to its origins as a minority sect in the Roman Empire); other “religions” were classified as such based on their degree of resemblance to the Christian model. Even within a single religion (as presently demarcated), religious “experience” is of many different kinds (boredom in church, for example), and ought not to be idealized as Otto does. The idea that religion originates in awe (like Schliermacher’s dog!) strikes me as just such an idealization. As fascinating as it is to consider the possibility of chimpanzee religion a la James Harrod, we already knew animals can get emotional about things like thunderstorms or their food bowls, and that they perform “rituals” like (for a cat) rubbing up against your legs. With chimpanzees it is easier for us to project our own behavior onto them. The discussion also introduces 19th-century assumptions about the evolution of “higher” religious forms from more “primitive” ones.
Other Owen (no. 322), “neigh-sayers” may find the following to be darkly therapeutic:
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11985896/1/Equustria
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8942390/1/Original-Rainbow-Factory
https://www.canterlotcomics.com/comic/en/cupcakes_unlucky_day-2034
JMG (no. 313): “Any action makes you more likely to repeat the action and to experience the consequences of the action, for good and ill. That’s karma.”
But…an atheist could agree with this much! Even if we throw in an afterlife, this tells us nothing about whether fish-eating (or man-eating!) might have any negative consequences besides addiction to the taste, and possibly getting into trouble at some point down the road.. My suspicion is that any attempt to flesh this out will involve human (and cultural) projections about what is right or meaningful. Perhaps I should wait for the next open post to needle you further on this, if you’re amenable.
“How many PhDs does the world need? Doctoral graduates vastly outnumber jobs in academia
PhD programmes need to better prepare students for careers outside universities, researchers warn.”
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01855-w
A clear case of Overproduction of Elites.
“Even though they do find jobs, it’s not necessarily linked to their PhDs, and it’s not always the jobs that they expected or that they wanted,” says Milandré van Lill, a researcher at Stellenbosch University in South Africa and a co-author of the study. “From my perspective, we have reached saturation point in terms of PhD graduates.” Some graduates who find jobs outside of academia feel overqualified and undervalued, says van Lill.”
Didn’t get the status they were looking for. Nothing about this is surprising.
FYI
Students should be ready to be shocked and offended at university, according to the man in charge of ensuring free speech on campuses.
Arif Ahmed, from the Office for Students (OfS), which regulates universities, told the BBC that exposure to views which students might find offensive was “part of the process of education”.
Cheers
One problem with the phrase “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is that it is being used to silence criticism of Trump. I’m seeing a lot of MAGA supporters who oppose the latest war in the Middle East being accused of having Trump Derangement Syndrome even though they have very valid reasons to oppose Trump’s recent actions on that issue, such as candidate Trump in 2024 promising the complete opposite. “Trump Derangement Syndrome” risks becoming another meaningless insult in the same way that “racist” or “fascist” was made into a meaningless insult by the Democrats in the past decade.
JMG wrote, “Drhooves, I’ve assumed all along that the further we get into the Long Descent, the fewer people will be willing to grasp what’s happening, because the widening gap between the image of the future that undergirds their identities and the actual future that’s happening will be too painful to deal with. Yes, there’ll be some intentional chaos, but much more of the unintended kind!”
This now makes total sense to me now, as I was looking at The Long Descent waking MORE people up to grasp what was happening and deal with it, as opposed to less people understanding Decline and going insane. Your view has been confirmed to be way more accurate.
@ #8 Jim Kukula – yes, it’s been a huge challenge for many to understand the bigger picture of today’s events in the proper context. My view was that the elites are engaging the masses with (propaganda) tools of technology, without fully understanding their impact. Fifth generation psychological techniques are on par with letting an eight year-old test fire a Thompson submachine gun. The laptop class of upper middle wealth seems especially vulnerable, as with all their free time, wealth and status has allowed them to create a self-centered phantom existence.
As you pointed out, the future trend towards “organizational power” seems to be in full swing now, and that rhymes with 1930s Germany – and that was not fun.
Chris, “big beautiful default” was an easy coinage — just put any noun in back of a few of Trump’s favorite adjectives and away we go.
J.L.Mc12, good question. I haven’t watched any shows of any kind since my childhood ended, so I’m hardly in a position to judge.
Shadow Rider, that’s convenient shorthand for “some of the consequences of your previous actions, in this and other lives, will tend to hinder you from developing your mental sheath into a mental body, and if you want to do this in a timely manner you’d probably better get around to dealing with those consequences and their repercussions.” The word “negative” here simply means “tending to slow a certain process” — if that process doesn’t matter to you, why, there you go.
Michael, I’m typing this on a laptop I got used for about the same price, and it’s a youthful 16 years old. I don’t see myself as part of the class in question, either. As for protests, yep — I wonder how many realize that Mangione was just reinventing the old, self-defeating anarchist strategy of “attentat.” Everything old is new again!
Other Owen, heh heh heh.
Alan, the phrase “assigned by society” is of course shorthand for “the sum total of the acts of assignment carried out by members of society, weighted according to their individual levels of influence and authority within society.” Since I’m writing a 3000-word essay, not a textbook on sociology, I figured I could use the shorter form and still be understood — sorry to hear that so simple a term left you confused.
TylerA, fascinating. Thanks for this.
Dolph99, it’s a source of repeated amusement to me that any time I post something that conflicts with the officially approved narratives of our time, people come out of the woodwork to demand that I take it back and start mouthing the same clichés as everyone else. Thank you for doing so in a relatively polite manner — the other people who have made that sort of demand this week have violated the rules of this blog and so were deleted. That said, I’m well aware of the officially approved viewpoint to which you’ve demanded that I kowtow; I’ve heard it, as of course everyone else has, at earsplitting volume over the last ten years, from various mouthpieces of the conventional wisdom; and I still see no reason to change my mind. Is Trump a member of the establishment? Of course he is — but so was Franklin Roosevelt, so was Julius Caesar, and so are many of the figures who emerge in the latter days of a collapsing plutocracy to lead an elite replacement cycle. That’s what I see happening here, and the mere fact that you’ve come bellying up to demand obedience to the conventional wisdom doesn’t inspire me to change my mind.
Michael, sorry to hear this.
Thijs, I think you’ve misunderstood what I mean by “upward mobility.” When a group of people rise up in the social hierarchy, they rise respective to other groups, who thus descend to the same degree. When middle-class gay men, for example, were allowed into the general middle class here in the US, it’s interesting to note that the collective nastiness toward working class men increased.
Ambrose, good. Karma is perfectly compatible with atheism — some versions of Buddhism, for example, are technically atheist but include karma. When you say “Even if we throw in an afterlife, this tells us nothing about whether fish-eating (or man-eating!) might have any negative consequences besides addiction to the taste, and possibly getting into trouble at some point down the road” — why, you’re almost there. “Getting into trouble at some point down the road” is what I’ve been talking about all along. If you’ll just stop trying to fold, spindle, and mutilate the concept of karma until you can turn it into some Abrahamic-religion version of ethics, you might finally glimpse what I’ve been trying to tell you all along.
Ethics are the rules that human societies have worked out by trial and error to enable people to live together on more or less viable terms; karma is the process of cause and effect as expressed in character and circumstances. They’re not the same thing, and don’t have much to do with each other. Consider Mozart’s precocious musical talent. From a karmic point of view, the fact that he played on the concert stage at the age of six was the natural consequence of many previous lives spent practicing music — I’m partial to the theory that he was Antonio Vivaldi in his pre-Mozart life — but it has no moral dimension at all. It’s simply the consequence of certain actions. Does that help you set aside your preconceptions a bit and grasp what I’m saying?
Siliconguy, I wonder how long it’ll take before they finally admit that it’s a waste of resources to train more PhDs than needed, and start trimming the educational system.
Paul, I bet there’s plenty of screaming in store over that!
Peter, fair enough, but there really does seem to be an actual syndrome as well, as distinct from the use of the label as a putdown. I wonder if you’d be willing to propose an alternative term.
Drhooves, I wish I was wrong, but here we are.
Smith (offlist), I literally have no idea what your last attempted comment was trying to say, if anything, and it sounded rather too much for my tastes like an AI imitating stream of consciousness babble. I’ll remind you of the first line of the text above the comment box: “Courteous, concise comments relevant to the topic of the current post are welcome.” Please be a little more concise and a little more relevant, so I can be sure there’s actually a person posting this.
@TylerA #325: Sure, taste is relative. I obviously don’t share yours. I never went to grad school, but might by some standards, be considered well-read, in the areas of my interest. There are plenty of working class intellectuals after all. In fact, maybe getting an elite education is more liable to make you a brony. I have no clue.
@J.L.Mc12 #331: Fair enough. To your general point, I do think some screenwriting has gotten better… and for people who haven’t read the classics, or even read much good literature, it might serve as a double whammy.
It is strange how this topic has galvanized the commentariat here, myself included. It’s like there is some beam from the Radiance pointed at us. Call me biased, but here I really have to agree with Other Owen #322. I guess we all just needed to get this out of our system or something.
FWIW I also think some screenwriting has gotten worse.
Kudos to Barry Carter #264 for inserting “Big Beautiful Default” into this conversation!
@siliconguy, JMG on doctorates: It is a waste of resources if one considers that PhD students could have done something more useful with their life otherwise. If the only criterion is how much research papers can be produced per year, then grooming as many undergraduates as possible into starting a PhD makes total sense. Of course, if we lived in a society of total abundance, it might make more sense for people to do PhDs than (say) play video games or collect stamps.
The optimal number of PhD candidates to be supervised by a professor over that professors’s lifespan is, in a steady-state system, one – and a bit to spare for failures. I would say less than two. Hermann Hesse’s story The Rain Maker in The Glass Bead Game makes that estimate for apprentices. In a decreasing system, it would be even less.
Thijs Goverde #332 says: “Methinks the people who get upset at transgenders feel they derive some status from their own gender, and furthermore feel that someone moving ‘up’ into their gender diminishes their status.”
Well, “transgender women” do diminish the status of women when actual women are forced to share jail cells with them: https://www.gigharbornow.org/news/police-fire/former-inmate-at-gig-harbor-prison-sues-doc-alleging-cellmate-harassed-and-assaulted-her/. See also this: https://peaked.substack.com/p/you-meet-more-perverts-when-youre.
As JMG said in his response (#338): “When a group of people rise up in the social hierarchy, they rise respective to other groups, who thus descend to the same degree.”
Society was healthier when people (including teens going through a phase) were allowed to be androgynous without getting confused about their actual gender.
In the coming years, ex-trans/nonbinary children will be suing doctors, parents, and teachers for allowing them to ruin their bodies and lives. The backlash might be unnuanced enough to end our society’s LGBT tolerance, not just ending Pride Month and the “affirmation” of so-called trans children.
“Then again, there are plenty of people who get very upset by the notion of gay marriage – a fact that has always mystified me. I imagine if you’re a straight person who feels that every move up *must* imply a move down, you feel that the existence of gay marriages automatically diminishes your own.”
That’s an outstanding example. My more religious friends were very offended by gay marriage precisely because it lowered their holy and deeply religious ceremony to just another civil contract. Even if it’s indirect that is a clear drop in status.
My comments that the religious had only themselves to blame for letting the State get involved in marriage at all mostly to keep THEM from being able to marry (for various versions of THEM), then lining up for the free money (including tax preferences) for married people the politicians started doling out to buy their votes were not appreciated. During the Supreme Court hearing it was mentioned there are over a thousand Married-People-Only benefits. I know from personal experience the IRS is very fond of single people.
@Siliconguy (#344):
As academia stands now, the admission of new students to PhD programs has very little, if anything, to do for preparing them for future jobs inside academia. Rather, they are admitted to be very cheap labor for faculty projects meant to bring more grant monies to their departments, thereby securing for those faculty very concrete rewards in terms of salary increases, increased access to prime office and laboratory space on campus, and enhanced prestige within their academic fields.
in short, most new PhD students are being suckered right, left, up, down and backwards. They are never told how dismal their prospects actually are for future academic employment. If they ever do raise the question, the answers they get are very often outright lies. The whole thing stinks to high heaven!
As early as the 1990s I began to warn my brightest undergraduates not to try for admission to a PhD program, but to pursue any other career path instead. The best of them listened and did just that, quite successfully in every case.
My own Ivy-League university, when I joined its faculty in 1967, was a very good undergraduate college which also had a few hundred graduate students spread among a limited number of departments by now it has become a second-rate research university, and is noticeably less excellent as a college than it once was. And it is still expanding its grant-getting research and its prestige-gathering activities. Ugh! Ticks growing fat off their hosts come to mind.
I shook its dust off my sandals in 2005, and have never once looked back with regret.
@Gordon R #329
I do not agree, Sweden and Finland were not ”strong-armed” (as in forced by external forces to do something against one’s will) to join NATO. Rather, we realized that
a) our next door neighbor is fundamentally crazy and will come after us next, when he’s done with the pillage and rape of Ukraine (and Ukraine were Russia’s “kin”, we are his historical arch-enemy so we will be treated even worse)
b) if we do not join the umbrella of NATO our home will be the battleground where any war between NATO and Russia plays out (seeing as how all other countries around the Baltic Sea already were members)
Swedish opinion changed dramatically in favor of NATO membership due to the atrocities perpetrated by Russia in Ukraine. See this graph:
https://www.gu.se/nyheter/nato-storsta-opinionsforandringen-nagonsin
And the Swedish support for NATO membership remains strong: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/statistik-efter-amne/demokrati/partisympatier/partisympatiundersokningen-psu/pong/tabell-och-diagram/eu–emu–och-nato-sympatier/nato-sympatier-2022-2025/
Sorry for the pages being in Swedish. I think the graphs are clear enough anyway. Here’s an article in English about the Finnish NATO membership support which shows the same pattern: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-9477.12273
So we joined NATO of our own free will, not because some politicians were “strong-armed” (by who?). Yes, our military budgets will rise sharply. I wish it were otherwise, but we need to be able to defend ourselves against our dangerous neighbor.
@Ambrose (#333):
Otto’s “numinous experiences” are only a rare and narrow subset among all the possible human experiences of “religion” (which, as you rightly say, conflates very many kinds of experience). IIRC, Otto himself was well aware of that, and did not mean his term to cover any wider range of religious experiences.
The interesting point, for me, is that certain other primates also seem to have this rare sort of experience, and not only humans. Moreover, they seem to show certain stereotypical behaviors when they have such experiences, which have some things in common with human ritual responses to human numinous experiences. This, to me, is more than sufficient to raise the question of non-human equivalents to some sorts of human experience and behavior that are parts of what we humans regard as religious.
I was not raised, myself, with any teaching about any specific Gods or their Scriptures., but with some exposure in my mother’s family to American religions in the New Thought and the Spiritualist traditions. [I had also been exposed to some of the stories about the Old Norse Gods in my childhood, but only in the context of my Danish cultural heritage on my father’s side, not as elements of any religion that anyone practiced today. Neither he nor I had never heard of modern-day Norse Paganism back when I was a boy.]
Thus it never made the slightest sense to me to define “religion” with reference to human interactions with Gods, despite the scholarly views of my colleagues in the Department of Religious Studies. Consequently, if Gods are not necessary for human systems of behavior and thought to count as “religions,” why should they matter in deciding whether some part of Baboon or Chimpanzee behavior might or might not be termed “religious” behavior? James Harrod’s “chimpanzee religion” is just shorthand for such a view of the evolutionary antecedents of human religion — which, I stress again, seems to me likely to have developed without any specific ideas about Gods.
JMG, thanks for being patient with me–they should give you extra karma points for that! (“Lords of Karma” ancient computer game reference.) I still can’t shake the feeling that “character” belongs to a different order of creation (human psychology and culture) than whatever the fundamental laws / principles of the universe are, but maybe it’s all consciousness or something.
On gay marriage, one insightful comment (from years ago) imagined how divorced-and-remarried people might react, if religious groups objected to calling their unions “marriages.” After all, divorce cheapens the institution of marriage.
On academia, yeah, wanting to be a humanities professor these days is a bit like kids wanting to be a ballerina / football player / rock star when they grow up. Awhile back, I would suggest Americans to try other countries, but that’s become a lot harder (a lot of department and university closures). and depending on the country, could be a kind of ghetto. I mean, nobody wants to be lumped in with all those backpacking English teachers.
That reminds me–remember the discussion about possible non-STEM acronyms? This isn’t really the same thing, but I see that Rice University offers a program in “Gnostic, Esoteric, and Mystical” Studies (GEM). Nice, although I wish they could have worked in “Hermetic” and/or “Occult” in there somehow. To anticipate an obvious question, one graduate is a martial arts teacher (he trained for years in Wudangshan!), while another is independently wealthy from her mother being a cult leader. Several other universities now offer analogous programs, so I suppose the subject is growing in popularity, jobs or no jobs. Meanwhile, programs in Tibetan are disappearing–I wonder if this is basically the same student market?–possibly due to the Tibet cause turning out to have been something of a fad.
Re PhD overproduction. As one of the overproduced I will add one more reason that programs will not be cut back until the entire system is close to or actually in collapse. Graduate students are not just cheap workers to take the burden of teaching the basics to undergraduates. They are also the necessary audience for the classes that senior professors want to teach. In addition to lower and upper division classes required for the major the professor can suggest and have accepted a graduate seminar in their area of interest. With English, my field, as an example, I would probably be assigned the British Literature Survey on a regular basis, which would mention Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters, but not in depth. I would include Austen and one of the Brontes in the required upper division English Novel 18th-19th Century, but would hope to be allowed to occasionally teach an entire semester graduate seminar on Austen vs. the Brontes.
Those of us old enough to remember when a movie night included the previews, the feature film, the B movie, a cartoon and maybe even a news reel or a travelogue will remember that the cartoons were written to appeal to all ages. Both adults and children could enjoy Bugs Bunny and other cartoons produced in that era. I think it was in the 1970s that the multiplex theatres started to show only one film per admission. The children’s TV programs of my childhood recycled a lot of the cartoons that had been shown at the movies. Later cartoons for television were developed, included some intended for the whole family such as the Flintstones and the Jetsons. The crossovers between toys such as the Little Ponies and cartoons came later.
Mr. Greer, how do you spell Hobbiton.. in Farsi? ‘;]
Okay, a mea culpa: I was overcome with exasperation over the ‘supposed’ Big Beautifully targeted B-2 Bombs over Estafan.. Fardow.. et.al. … worrying at how soon the flinging of canned sunshine would commence! (say, byKim Un Jong.. ISRAEL.. Ukraine Nazis.. or, pick a misceant of your choice! I reside within proximity of 2 probable mil. targets – Port Angeles ‘deep-water’ Harbor .. complete with sub tenders, less than a mile from my abode , and/or .. the other just around the eastern bend of the Olympics- off the Hood Canal .. in Sub Base !Bang!-or. I have reason to freak, ok?
Now, having said such, I see (after a few days of perusing various intertoob nodes .. that yes, kafabe has been in play. Still, all this makes me anxious – in the extreme.
Here’s the thing that I worry about: if A. I. progresses accordingly ( and who doesn’t want to use it, for .. rea$on$) what’s to say it that it won’t f**k up altogether, through bogus Humon inputs.. and just do away with ANY restraint what-so-ever?
Robert Mathiesen (no. 348), my point is that an emphasis on “mystical” states or experience is going to encourage an overly romantic view of religion, too removed from ordinary everyday reality. I propose that each of the components of what we call “religion” (such as ritual) be studied separately, especially when it comes to something as far removed from our culture as animal consciousness.
I agree that talk of God or gods is misplaced–we may joke that our dogs view us as gods, while our cats think of themselves as gods, but this seems of limited helpfulness. I do not view theism (whether mono- or poly-) as a fundamental category, but would rather speak of cosmologies or worldviews, which seem common to all known human societies. While dogs and cats must navigate the world by means of some sort of interior “mind-map,” however unreflective, their lack of (grammatical) language–and therefore storytelling ability–sets this apart from the human experience, IMHO. (I realize that bees do communicate information about the world to one another through the waggle-dance, though,.)
I have basic issues with the concept of “mystical” experience–have I ever had one? what are the criteria? are there any Baptist mystics?–especially as applied to animals. Cats doze all day; is this similar to meditation? And what about Schliermacher’s dog? One aspect of “mysticism” seems to involve a kind of oceanic, upper-directed awe (again, like the dog towards its master, or a baby for its mother). Another is more quiescent than transcendent (like the dozing cat?), and people have even been known to speak of ecstasy (either kind), insight, strong emotion, concentration, etc.
“The interesting point, for me, is that certain other primates also seem to have this rare sort of experience, and not only humans.”
Have they? How can we know? Sure, we can observe their behavior (some of it very thought-provoking) and make inferences, but this is hazardous, and they certainly cannot tell us themselves. One characteristic problem is our tendency to project human concepts onto nonhuman animals. Robert Sapolsky writes in “A Primate’s Memoir” about a particularly traumatic “rape” that occurred in the troop of baboons he was studying, but admits that this kind of interpretation is disfavored among researchers. (Even assigning them human names is controversial.) Talk of their mystical experiences seems an even greater leap than something as quotidian as rape trauma.
“Moreover, they seem to show certain stereotypical behaviors when they have such experiences, which have some things in common with human ritual responses to human numinous experiences.”
I lean towards a more constructivist view of mysticism, which holds it to be a product of certain cultural traditions rather than universal to the human experience (if not beyond). At the very least, we know that “mystics” (however identified) exhibit different behaviors from one another, and report different beliefs and experiences. Perhaps only some of them are real mystics, or perhaps these experiences are arranged according to a spiritual hierarchy, as Ken Wilber assures us, but these are (romantic religious) assumptions.
“This, to me, is more than sufficient to raise the question of non-human equivalents to some sorts of human experience and behavior that are parts of what we humans regard as religious.”
I agree with this much–it is indeed an interesting question.
@ Patrick “Society was healthier when people (including teens going through a phase) were allowed to be androgynous without getting confused about their actual gender.”
This is the foundation I still wonder about. If you think you have an issue with gender, how do you know? By that I mean, until you have directly experienced another state, how do you know? I get the idea of social constructs relating to roles and fashions etc, but when it comes to gender, it just feels so needlessly layered on top. It is like saying I am not seeing a colour I have never seen, how would I know what the missing colour would look like? I cannot taste with my hand, but it doesn’t feel like my hand is defective because of this.
If there is such a thing as gender, it would be different for everyone, thus I have said there are 8 billion+ genders. From a Buddhist angle, I would say ‘why are you clinging to this attachment of being defined like this?’
Like you said, if people can just be androgynous, or masculine or feminine regardless of sex – to be happy in themselves but without all the additional guff on top of gender, things would probably go a lot more smoothly.
I say all this as someone that if you where to go with the cultural stereo types of men and women, my wife and i and reversed in that sense. She will be going on about cars, while I am in the kitchen cooking up a meal. But that is just how it goes, I do not feel like I need to be another gender. I am me, the only one I have ever know and that is neat.
@Ambrose (#352):
It seems to me that we agree on several points, disagree on others.
Otto’s “numinous” experiences are not “mystical” experiences, either, but simply experiences of deep awe or wonder, such as might arise in some people when seeing a mighty storm come “thundering down the line,” across the sky over one’s head, or when stumbling on a small rush-rimmed pool of still water in the woods, gloriously illiminated by the setting sun.
I have had a mystical experience twice, when I was 13. I was a loud-mouthed, know-it-all boy who had just read Tom Paine’s Deistical tract, The Age of Reason (1794) for my Junior High School course on American History, and had loved Paine’s arguments.
The first of these experiences came upon me without my asking for it, or even having had any sort of cultural or religious preparation for it. It began instantaneously while I was walking to school, and it lasted for about 6 hours. Without warning my entire body became an organ of direct perception, quite apart from the must weaker perceptions of my ordinary sense organs (eyes, ears, etc.). This direct perception was not limited to the world within reach of my` ordinary senses. It extended itself without any limits of time or space back through time to the very beginning of our universe and forward to its ending, and out through space to the very limits of our universe. It was “overload to the max” for my 13-year-old mind, like trying to drink water from a fire-hose in full blast without getting one’s lips torn off one’s face in the process. Afterward I could not tell or describe any specifics of what I had perceived, only that all of it seemed to me to be a single whole thing. It was living, fiery, conscious, sentient, dispassionate; it encompassed everything that ever existed, and also everything that never existed (despite the logical contradiction here)–though those human words of mine are only weak approximations to what they are trying to capture, which was wholly beyond the capacity of human language to describe or human thought to grasp. There was no separate Deity of any sort that I could tell apart from this whole thing that I was perceiving. It lasted most of the school day. I said nothing about it to anyone at the time.
One small part of me competently got me through my school day without anyone noticing anything out of the ordinary going on with me.
It happened again a few days later, and this time I told my mother about it after school. She looked at me with pity and said, “Oh, Robbie, you’ve seen things as they really are, and now you’ll just have to live with that horrible knowledge all the rest of your life, you poor kid.” Wow! I thought something like, “Well, if I have to live with it, then I’ll just live with it. What’s the big deal anyway?” And it hasn’t been any big deal, but those experiences shaped me like nothing else that ever happened in my life.
For me, at least, these mystical experiences had nothing to do with any cultural traditions in my own life up to that point. If they had any basis at all in the material world that you and I share, the only basis I can find there is in human neurophysiology, not human culture. And, of course, human neurophysiology is a “product” of primate evolution. Hence my take on pre-human “religious experience.”
Getting to this a little late, JMG. I read a LOT of books, many suggested by you, but I do so on audiobook. I haven’t read Small is Beautiful yet because there’s no audiobook, but maybe this summer I get the chance.
I recently read We have never been woke By Al Gharbi. He eviscerates the status whoring of what he calls the “Symbolic Capitalists,” essentially people whose chief asset is their status in society. Here’s the thing: I have NEVER made as many bookmarks in a book as I have with this book. For all the great recommendations you’ve made to me, I assure you that you will LOVE this book.
And deindustrial chitlin circuit… like it. Gonna call it that from now on.
You’re on a roll